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Thread: HOW-TO: Stereo / Speaker / Amp Installation (Radio/Speaker/Inner Door Trim Removal)

  1. #21
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    I couldn't seem to find the thread you mentioned. Could you post a link please?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 91cavgt View Post
    In the first post, it is recommended to run the power wire through the fender, and then through the door, is this correct?


    PLEASE DO NOT do this. I have seen cars burn to the ground because they ran the power wire for the amps through the door. I made a thread on here on how to run the power wire into the car via a factory grommet that maintains a water proof seal. It is MUCH safer that way, it looks almost stock under the hood, and your power wire will be shorter. I too ran 4 gauge wire, so it can be done.




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    Quote Originally Posted by LurgidBee View Post
    I couldn't seem to find the thread you mentioned. Could you post a link please?

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    Page 5 of my under seat subwoofer install has a few pics and a bit of how I did it. After several car washes and a LOT of heavy rain it still has not leaked any water.

    http://mirageforum.com/forum/showthr...ger-seat/page5
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    For those looking for a way to mount aftermarket speakers, the part number for the correct spacers
    is CT25MT02. Lancers and Outlanders share the same part for their doors as well.

    Also, for those who don't want to cut up the speaker wires, cable adapter is CT55-MT01.
    Last edited by Littlestan; 08-15-2015 at 10:21 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 91cavgt View Post
    The limitation to the stock system, besides the speakers, appears to be the tiny wire and small power output of the stock radio. If you really want good quality sound, you are going to need to run new, larger gauge wire to the speakers from either an aftermarket radio, or from an amplifier. The stock wiring is either 20 or 22 gauge.
    I hate to burst your bubble but I have to say bull****. You do NOT need thicker gauge wire. Most cars today all use similar wire gauge. In my 2005 Subaru Impreza WRX STI, I fell for the bull**** like everyone else, that in order to get good sound I would need thicker wire. So I opted for 12 gauge as that seemed like the largest needed for speakers. Installed it, and got ZERO difference in sound. And I mean it sounded exactly the effing same. I have the SMD-DD1 amp tuner, and I tuned the amp before and after the wire gauge difference and I gained nothing from the amps output by going to a bigger size. So if it doesn't help go louder, what did it do? NOTHING. In fact, it was so much of nothing, I removed the wire I ran and hooked it back up the smart way, IE RCA to amp, then AMP to wire harness behind the head unit. I am running 150watts RMS to both my front speakers in my STI and I have zero distortion (granted, I also used the SMD-DD1 to make sure amp wasn't causing said distortion.) Literally can crank the bad boy up to 50 out of 62 on my pioneer deh-80prs, I can walk away from the car and you can still hear it very far away. 150watts rms is no joke. If I can run 150watts RMS over stock wire, you can too.

    http://www.audioholics.com/audio-vid...iew_fullscreen

    here is a great view of wire gauge vs db loss. Anything above the dotted line is so negligible its only noticeable with audio testing equipment, your ears wont hear it at all. You can see that 18 gauge wire is good for up to 14 feet before you get db loss, even then the loss is still so low you wont notice it. Guess what, your car's stock wiring from the headunit to each door is less than 14 feet. Granted, the subaru comes with 18 gauge wire. As crazy as it sounds, im 99.9% sure the mirage should have 18 gauge stock wiring as well, as it is a common standard among import cars. Even my previous vehicles, a 93 del sol and 06 s2000 both had 18 gauge wire. The only time I've seen smaller 20-22 gauge wire was in crappy domestic american cars from the past.

    ask any electrical engineer, the market is flooded with bull****. "you get better picture quality if you use this 200 dollar HDMI cable over the low price 20 dollar one" bull****. Its placebo. An HDMI cable is an HDMI cable. An audio cable is an audio cable. The only time to worry about cable wire size is if you are buying speaker wire, and they measure their gauge wrong (like many power cables for amps, you get 4 gauge wire and its actually 6 because the casing is thicker than true 4 gauge brands).

    you ever notice that when you buy an amp, the only wire size recommendation is power and ground wires? why wouldn't they tell you what speaker wire to use too? because honestly it doesn't matter. and even if you somehow pass the point of db audio loss, that is simply volume, not quality. so you lose .0X of a DB, big whoop...........

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    Quote Originally Posted by namco View Post
    I hate to burst your bubble but I have to say bull****. You do NOT need thicker gauge wire. Most cars today all use similar wire gauge. In my 2005 Subaru Impreza WRX STI, I fell for the bull**** like everyone else, that in order to get good sound I would need thicker wire. So I opted for 12 gauge as that seemed like the largest needed for speakers. Installed it, and got ZERO difference in sound. And I mean it sounded exactly the effing same. I have the SMD-DD1 amp tuner, and I tuned the amp before and after the wire gauge difference and I gained nothing from the amps output by going to a bigger size. So if it doesn't help go louder, what did it do? NOTHING. In fact, it was so much of nothing, I removed the wire I ran and hooked it back up the smart way, IE RCA to amp, then AMP to wire harness behind the head unit. I am running 150watts RMS to both my front speakers in my STI and I have zero distortion (granted, I also used the SMD-DD1 to make sure amp wasn't causing said distortion.) Literally can crank the bad boy up to 50 out of 62 on my pioneer deh-80prs, I can walk away from the car and you can still hear it very far away. 150watts rms is no joke. If I can run 150watts RMS over stock wire, you can too.

    http://www.audioholics.com/audio-vid...iew_fullscreen

    here is a great view of wire gauge vs db loss. Anything above the dotted line is so negligible its only noticeable with audio testing equipment, your ears wont hear it at all. You can see that 18 gauge wire is good for up to 14 feet before you get db loss, even then the loss is still so low you wont notice it. Guess what, your car's stock wiring from the headunit to each door is less than 14 feet. Granted, the subaru comes with 18 gauge wire. As crazy as it sounds, im 99.9% sure the mirage should have 18 gauge stock wiring as well, as it is a common standard among import cars. Even my previous vehicles, a 93 del sol and 06 s2000 both had 18 gauge wire. The only time I've seen smaller 20-22 gauge wire was in crappy domestic american cars from the past.

    ask any electrical engineer, the market is flooded with bull****. "you get better picture quality if you use this 200 dollar HDMI cable over the low price 20 dollar one" bull****. Its placebo. An HDMI cable is an HDMI cable. An audio cable is an audio cable. The only time to worry about cable wire size is if you are buying speaker wire, and they measure their gauge wrong (like many power cables for amps, you get 4 gauge wire and its actually 6 because the casing is thicker than true 4 gauge brands).

    you ever notice that when you buy an amp, the only wire size recommendation is power and ground wires? why wouldn't they tell you what speaker wire to use too? because honestly it doesn't matter. and even if you somehow pass the point of db audio loss, that is simply volume, not quality. so you lose .0X of a DB, big whoop...........

    First off, settle down. There is absolutely no reason to slam someone like you just did.

    Second, I thank you for not just taking what people state as fact and questioning things (even if I disagree with how you did it).

    Third, you contradicted yourself and said that wire size does not matter, and then you admitted that it does matter(for power). You do realize that the ONLY difference between the electricity on the power wires and the electricity on the speaker wires is D/C current (power wires) vs. A/C current (speaker wires) right? If wire size did not matter with A/C power then every single house out there would be wired with the smallest gauge wire possible, but that is not the case.

    So, with just BARELY brushing the surface, there is a VERY valid reason why wire size does in fact matter when it comes to speakers. If you would like me to delve into the science of it all I would be happy to do so. Just tone down the harshness some, ok?
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    Quote Originally Posted by 91cavgt View Post
    First off, settle down. There is absolutely no reason to slam someone like you just did.

    Second, I thank you for not just taking what people state as fact and questioning things (even if I disagree with how you did it).

    Third, you contradicted yourself and said that wire size does not matter, and then you admitted that it does matter(for power). You do realize that the ONLY difference between the electricity on the power wires and the electricity on the speaker wires is D/C current (power wires) vs. A/C current (speaker wires) right? If wire size did not matter with A/C power then every single house out there would be wired with the smallest gauge wire possible, but that is not the case.

    So, with just BARELY brushing the surface, there is a VERY valid reason why wire size does in fact matter when it comes to speakers. If you would like me to delve into the science of it all I would be happy to do so. Just tone down the harshness some, ok?
    I didn't contradict myself in any bit. Take a digital multimeter, and check the power running to say a 150 watt x 2 speaker car amp at full power, then go to your door speaker and again check how much power is running. the a/c current at the car's speaker is relatively low, at about 0-30 amps depending on the volume.

    even when tuning amps with car audio, the rule of thumb to set the amp is "voltage = square root of watts x ohm" so if I am running 300 watts rms at 2 ohms that's 600 watts, that 24.4948xxxxxxxxx amps. so when tuning the amps gain setting, if I set the amp to 24.4 amps i should get my 150 watts per 2 speaker gain setting i want. Keeping the OEM WIRE I measured the amps where the speaker connected to the speaker wire, where I got 24.39 which is .01 of a loss, which isn't even audible! and that is with stock 18 gauge wire which as I said in my other lengthy post is about the norm for car audio.

    now according to DC wire size to feet tables, this states that at 24 amps, 18 gauge is only sufficient for 3-5 feet, so my amp being under the driver seat of my scooby, the 18 gauge from there runs up the center console under the dash to where the stock wire is, which alone is 4 feet of wire, then from there goes through the oem harness to the two doors, which is about 3-6 feet (guess-timation) that's a total of 7 to 10 feet of wire that should NOT carry that power, and should have more power LOSS.

    the fuse on my amp is 30, its recommended to use 8 gauge wire or else the amp will not work correctly. if we use the same table from before, true 8 gauge wire should be good for up to 25 feet but only using 40 amps, which is already OVER what the amp needs. how long is the power wire in your amp kits? about 15-25 feet depending on the kit right? that ensures the amp works flawlessly regardless. yet running about 24 amps to the door, 18 gauge works. because AC is DIFFERENT than DC. you can't hear a difference. I even tried putting in 12 gauge to see what changes, and the sound was exactly the same.

    but by all means, if it makes you feel better wiring up your car with extra crap you don't need for peace of mind go for it, but for people who don't want to waste money, you can do more with less. 150 watts to both front door speakers RMS is no effing joke, its killer loud, like after a 10-15 minute drive ears are ringing loud, and I doubt MOST normal car people will even want to go that high, most people opt for about 50-75 watts of rms power, which means less amps, which makes 18 gauge even more okay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by namco View Post
    I didn't contradict myself in any bit. Take a digital multimeter, and check the power running to say a 150 watt x 2 speaker car amp at full power, then go to your door speaker and again check how much power is running. the a/c current at the car's speaker is relatively low, at about 0-30 amps depending on the volume.

    even when tuning amps with car audio, the rule of thumb to set the amp is "voltage = square root of watts x ohm" so if I am running 300 watts rms at 2 ohms that's 600 watts, that 24.4948xxxxxxxxx amps. so when tuning the amps gain setting, if I set the amp to 24.4 amps i should get my 150 watts per 2 speaker gain setting i want. Keeping the OEM WIRE I measured the amps where the speaker connected to the speaker wire, where I got 24.39 which is .01 of a loss, which isn't even audible! and that is with stock 18 gauge wire which as I said in my other lengthy post is about the norm for car audio.

    now according to DC wire size to feet tables, this states that at 24 amps, 18 gauge is only sufficient for 3-5 feet, so my amp being under the driver seat of my scooby, the 18 gauge from there runs up the center console under the dash to where the stock wire is, which alone is 4 feet of wire, then from there goes through the oem harness to the two doors, which is about 3-6 feet (guess-timation) that's a total of 7 to 10 feet of wire that should NOT carry that power, and should have more power LOSS.

    the fuse on my amp is 30, its recommended to use 8 gauge wire or else the amp will not work correctly. if we use the same table from before, true 8 gauge wire should be good for up to 25 feet but only using 40 amps, which is already OVER what the amp needs. how long is the power wire in your amp kits? about 15-25 feet depending on the kit right? that ensures the amp works flawlessly regardless. yet running about 24 amps to the door, 18 gauge works. because AC is DIFFERENT than DC. you can't hear a difference. I even tried putting in 12 gauge to see what changes, and the sound was exactly the same.

    but by all means, if it makes you feel better wiring up your car with extra crap you don't need for peace of mind go for it, but for people who don't want to waste money, you can do more with less. 150 watts to both front door speakers RMS is no effing joke, its killer loud, like after a 10-15 minute drive ears are ringing loud, and I doubt MOST normal car people will even want to go that high, most people opt for about 50-75 watts of rms power, which means less amps, which makes 18 gauge even more okay.
    What source material were you using for your test? did you use an rta to read db levels, and if you did where was the mic placed during each test? In my 24 years of car audio I have never heard of anyone tuning a system the way you describe.
    Last edited by 91cavgt; 01-25-2016 at 07:56 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by namco View Post
    the rule of thumb to set the amp is "voltage = square root of watts x ohm"
    I just learned something new about Ohm's Law!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 91cavgt View Post
    What source material were you using for your test? did you use an rta to read db levels, and if you did where was the mic placed during each test? In my 24 years of car audio I have never heard of anyone tuning a system the way you describe.
    its a poor mans tuning option but it works, you may end up with clipping too but its the risk you take..... i happen to have bought a SMD-DD1 to tune my amps now which works just as well as an oscilloscope for detecting distortion, even then you can still plug a DMM up to everything as I described and realize 18 gauge works as it should.

    what boggles my mind is you have been doing audio for 24 years and you never heard of using ohms law to tune amps. as i said its not perfect but it works. maybe you just always have money to spend on nice stuff but facts are facts. the 18 gauge wire is not an issue for door speakers. now running a subwoofer speaker off 18 gauge wire i would agree is dumb, but you are also talking more watts going through meaning more amps meaning thicker wire sizes.

    the only reason I can think of that you are fighting me on this so hard is being that you have been "doing this for 24 years" means you might lose business? this is a forum for people not your personal business sales area. in any business if you want to lie to customers do it on your own website and in your own store, don't spread that **** on the internet where it dont belong. the wire size argument has been beat to death over and over, even back in the 70's and 80's when magazines would cover the same issue in extensive articles. the 200 dollar hdmi cable will do the same thing as a 20 dollar cable, the only difference is peace of mind.

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    Namco, you seem to know a bit about electricity and electronics. I'm curious to know where did you study?


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