Cold Weather CVT

[Grumpy Bear]

How's the CVT respond to -30 F (-34 C) temperatures on first start of the day?

[inuvik]

How's the CVT respond to -30 F (-34 C) temperatures on first start of the day?

Owners manual states this:

When the ambient temperature is -4 °F (-20
°C) or lower, it may not be possible to start
from a standstill even with the selector lever
in the “D” (DRIVE) or “R” (REVERSE)
position.
This phenomenon occurs because the transaxle
has not warmed up sufficiently; it does

not indicate a problem. If this occurs, place
the selector lever in the “P” (PARK) position
and let the engine idle for at least 10 minutes.
The transaxle will warm up, and you will be
able to start normally.
Do not leave the vehicle during warm-up
operation.

[Fummins]

They're sluggish below -30c and keep rpm higher longer until the warm up. I abuse mine and don't let it warm up. I start it, kick on the seat heater and drive if the windows are clear. First 10 mins of my drive are in stop go traffic so I don't feel so bad. Mine was a little whiny at first the other day when I started it in -38c. I did let it warm up that day, just to be nice.

A few times I've had a car take a second to kick into gear, it was in -34 - -40c. Just use what's was formerly known as common sense and it'll be fine.

[Grumpy Bear]

https://cdmg.com.au/wp-content/uploa...T-FLUID-J4.pdf

This Mitsubishi CVTF-J4 Fluid is Mineral Oil. And I cannot find a PDS on this product nor a VOA. Just the SDS (MSDS)

What I can find is a dozen Synthetics who's range of -40 C/F viscosities range 9.4 to 14 Poise. And about a 15-degree range in pour point. One SDS from Ravenol:

https://www.ravenol.de/storage/app/u...132_en_ALL.pdf

It would appear then that differences in pour point and -40C viscosities are primarily the result of the amount of PAO blended with a Group III base stock. More POA = lower pour point and lower -40C viscosity.

As the Mitsubishi fluid is mostly Mineral oil (70-79% by SDS) the just about anything would be an improvement in cold weather performance. Well, and oxidation resistance as well.

I note that on the Red Line site that 30K for their offering is considered an Extended Drain Interval.

Stuff is, viscosity wise, a 0W16. Oh well, a fun look anyway.

[7milesout]

Fummins - I've heard or read that automatics pump their fluid around when it is in Neutral (and while driving of course). It may do that in Park too. Maybe it just does it better in Neutral. I don't know, I know almost nothing about automatics. But this is from traditional geared automatic transmissions. Are CVTs different?

I ask because it seems like the owner's manual should recommend to let it warm up in Neutral. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that indeed it would be better to warm it up in Neutral. But Mitsubishi suggests leaving it in Park because they are concerned some customers might put it in Neutral, NOT use the parking brake, and the car might roll, you know after the person gets out of the vehicle. And they're probably correct. Thoughts?

[Fummins]

I have never used the Mitsubishi branded cvt fluid, at least not that I recall. I've maintained these fleet turds since late 2014 when the first batch of 2015's were bought. I don't think I even replaced the cvt fluid for the first few years until we had a failure at 300k km. Then I started using Klondike brand universal cvt fluid. Here's the PDS for it:https://cdn.bfldr.com/BFR6BRKA/at/q6...thetic_PDS.pdf
I used that stuff up until late last year.
Now I use this Motosel branded stuff https://www.motosel.com/_files/ugd/5...4e0d1e7d9c.pdf
And for some reason their product sheet online is out of date and doesn't show it as meeting the J4 spec. But I have a printout that says they have "supporting data available to demonstrate acceptable performance" then a long list of different mfg's specs ranging from Auti Multitronic to Subaru iCVT. They also Have Mitsubishi CVTF-J4, J4+, and ECO J4 listed there as well. The bottle shows the same as their website, J1 only. Time will tell, I'll be sure to post if they grenade this year.

[Fummins]

Fummins - I've heard or read that automatics pump their fluid around when it is in Neutral (and while driving of course). It may do that in Park too. Maybe it just does it better in Neutral. I don't know, I know almost nothing about automatics. But this is from traditional geared automatic transmissions. Are CVTs different?

I ask because it seems like the owner's manual should recommend to let it warm up in Neutral. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that indeed it would be better to warm it up in Neutral. But Mitsubishi suggests leaving it in Park because they are concerned some customers might put it in Neutral, NOT use the parking brake, and the car might roll, you know after the person gets out of the vehicle. And they're probably correct. Thoughts?

I've always heard that about automagics too. I don't know if there's any difference between running in neutral compared to park in a regular automatic other than having the park pawl engaged. I should know but have no idea. I skipped those years of school and most of the other ones too.
The oil pump on the automatics I've seen is in the front of the transmission behind the torque convertor. The pump on the Mirage cvt is chain driven. I did make a couple video's tearing my old cvt apart. Take a gander? I can't remember 100% but I'm sure the pump is driven as soon as the engine is started, basically driven right off the crank-flywheel-torque convertor. I assume warming up in any gear other than drive or reverse is prefered but they probably don't mention neutral because then they'd have to add a safety feature to engage the park brake because big brother wants to make everything idiot proof instead of let natural selection occur...

[Grumpy Bear]

Fummins - I've heard or read that automatics pump their fluid around when it is in Neutral (and while driving of course). It may do that in Park too. Maybe it just does it better in Neutral. I don't know, I know almost nothing about automatics. But this is from traditional geared automatic transmissions. Are CVTs different?

I ask because it seems like the owner's manual should recommend to let it warm up in Neutral. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that indeed it would be better to warm it up in Neutral. But Mitsubishi suggests leaving it in Park because they are concerned some customers might put it in Neutral, NOT use the parking brake, and the car might roll, you know after the person gets out of the vehicle. And they're probably correct. Thoughts?

Back in the day, early 60's, as they say, some automatics in park, a pawl, did so disabling the pump while in park and this would mean the trans would burn up in time as the main shaft spun without lubrication. Chrysler's early Torqflite in example. That lead generally to the practice being discontinued.

[Grumpy Bear]

I have never used the Mitsubishi branded cvt fluid, at least not that I recall. I've maintained these fleet turds since late 2014 when the first batch of 2015's were bought. I don't think I even replaced the cvt fluid for the first few years until we had a failure at 300k km. Then I started using Klondike brand universal cvt fluid. Here's the PDS for it:https://cdn.bfldr.com/BFR6BRKA/at/q6...thetic_PDS.pdf
I used that stuff up until late last year.
Now I use this Motosel branded stuff https://www.motosel.com/_files/ugd/5...4e0d1e7d9c.pdf
And for some reason their product sheet online is out of date and doesn't show it as meeting the J4 spec. But I have a printout that says they have "supporting data available to demonstrate acceptable performance" then a long list of different mfg's specs ranging from Auti Multitronic to Subaru iCVT. They also Have Mitsubishi CVTF-J4, J4+, and ECO J4 listed there as well. The bottle shows the same as their website, J1 only. Time will tell, I'll be sure to post if they grenade this year.

I was wondering as use of a quality synthetic of PAO base in a GM 6L80E vs the ACDelco Group III fluid has a remarkable effect on its cold weather performance. More fluid at lower temperatures means a better working valve-body. Have you noticed such a difference?

[OrganicFoxes]

How's the CVT respond to -30 F (-34 C) temperatures on first start of the day?

Mine does not even lock up the torque converter when the fluid is below 50F. It is super annoying especially when I don't want to rev the car out when cold. Winter is already bad enough for gas mileage, this makes it even worse. Does anyone elses car do this? I monitor my cvt and engine temps when I drive and right when that cvt hits 50F it locks up. I have had to put my hazards on before and let people pass when there was this steep hill and I just started my car, was only a 40mph road and I am not going to let the engine spin up over 3k rpm to barley go the speed limit when not up to temp. Other then that it feels sluggish when cold, still shifts into second just fine and still functions aight.