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Thread: Is there anything that might better the Mirage MT fuel economy in the real world?

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    Is there anything that might better the Mirage MT fuel economy in the real world?

    I'm just wondering...When i check the Canadian NRC rating the Prius C is rated about 10% better than the Mirage CVT (which in turn was rated better than the Mirage MT). It seems that, in the real world, the Mirage MT actually does about 10% better than the CVT (which would it in line with the Prius C). Since in seems the NRC (or EPA) ratings can't really bet trusted are there any other cars out there (other than electrics) that might do better in the real world than a Mirage MT?



  2. #2
    The Prius C is rated quite a bit more than 10% better than the CVT:

    Prius C (from NRCAN)

    City L/100 km 4.5
    Highway L/100 km 5.1
    Combined L/100 km 4.8

    Mirage CVT (from NRCAN)

    City L/100 km 6.4 Edit Post
    Highway L/100 km 5.3
    Combined L/100 km 5.9

    In the city, where you seem to do most of your driving, the Prius is rated to use 30% less fuel than the CVT. You won't easily beat that even with the manual. Its combined rating is 19% better than the CVT.

    (Yes, it's possible to hypermile a Mirage 5-speed with hard core techniques and beat a Prius C -- I did .. barely ... in an ecodriving rally with a Mirage 5MT. But then it's also possible to hypermile a Prius and exceed its ratings by a wide margin as well. In other words, a hypermiled Mirage probably can't beat a hypermiled Prius C.)

    It's safe to say there isn't another non-hybrid, non-electric vehicle available in Canada or the US that's more efficient than the Mirage 5-speed.

    EDIT: I also think you might have a hard time meeting the Prius' city rating with your typical usage (short, city trips). The hybrid system works best to reduce consumption only when the car is fully warmed up -- the difference between cold & warm fuel use is wider in hybrids than non-hybrids. And with relatively short trips, proportionately more of the drive time happens with the car below normal operating temp.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 63.2 mpg (US) ... 26.9 km/L ... 3.7 L/100 km ... 75.9 mpg (Imp)


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    Quote Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
    The Prius C is rated quite a bit more than 10% better than the CVT:

    Prius C (from NRCAN)

    City L/100 km 4.5
    Highway L/100 km 5.1
    Combined L/100 km 4.8

    Mirage CVT (from NRCAN)

    City L/100 km 6.4 Edit Post
    Highway L/100 km 5.3
    Combined L/100 km 5.9

    In the city, where you seem to do most of your driving, the Prius is rated to use 30% less fuel than the CVT. You won't easily beat that even with the manual. Its combined rating is 19% better than the CVT.
    That'll teach me to quote numbers from memory.
    BTW, does anyone know how the carbon footprint of production compares to the Prius. There was some nonsense a while back claiming that the larger carbon footprint of production of the Prius offset the lower emissions over the life of the vehicle making it comparable to a Hummer. Of course that's nonsense when compared to the Hummer but compared to an efficient small gasoline powered car like the Mirage it wouldn't surprise me if any "green" gains in lower emissions might be offset by a larger carbon footprint of production.

  4. #4
    In several rebuttals that debunked the Hummer vs. Prius article, I seem to remember reading that fuel consumption is the bigger environmental impact of a vehicle, not production (even including hybrids).

    EDIT: eg...

    Production, recycling, and disposal costs to the environment are difficult to quantify and largely beyond the control of most consumers. They are also relatively minor. Most of an automobiles’ environmental impact, perhaps 80 to 90 percent, will be due to fuel consumption
    Source: http://environment.nationalgeographi...mental-impact/

    Of course, it's not Prius specific. But I'd be surprised if the balance of production vs. efficiency of the Prius tilts the balance the other direction.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 63.2 mpg (US) ... 26.9 km/L ... 3.7 L/100 km ... 75.9 mpg (Imp)


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    Quote Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
    In several rebuttals that debunked the Hummer vs. Prius article, I seem to remember reading that fuel consumption is the bigger environmental impact of a vehicle, not production (even including hybrids).
    Of course, it's not Prius specific. But I'd be surprised if the balance of production vs. efficiency of the Prius tilts the balance the other direction.
    Without the facts I don't think you can make any definitive statement. The carbon footprint of production is significant and from what I've read on the subject it wouldn't surprise me at all if the balance was tipped in favour of a close rival that used much simpler technology. The Prius is massively more complex than the Mirage.
    Last edited by nternal1; 05-18-2015 at 03:29 PM.

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    Senior Member 25Plus's Avatar
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    In Europe there are a few little cars, that do as good as the Space Star 1.2. But the Space Star 1.0 is the most economic conventional gasoline car that can be bought in Europe today.

    Honda Insight: 3,8 l/100 km
    Daihatsu Cuore: 4,8 l/100 km
    Toyota Yaris Hybrid: 4,8 l/100 km
    Space Star 1.0: 4,9 l/100 km
    Nissan Pixo: 5,1 l/100 km
    Space Star 1.2: 5,1 l/100 km
    Mitsubishi Space Star 1.2:
    Daihatsu Cuore L251:

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Space Star Klassik Kollektion+ 1.2 manual: 67.5 mpg (US) ... 28.7 km/L ... 3.5 L/100 km ... 81.0 mpg (Imp)


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  8. #7
    The Mirage has won several awards based on lifecycle analysis. See thread: Mirage / Space Star awards & accomplishments

    A quick search reveals the Prius C was also recognized by at least one of the same organizations (ACEEE).

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 63.2 mpg (US) ... 26.9 km/L ... 3.7 L/100 km ... 75.9 mpg (Imp)


  9. #8
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    Prius C has the Mirage beat in mpg if your comparing cars in general, the prius c is a great hybrid, but it is still a hybrid. I like the idea of hybrids but their technology is so expensive, and the replacement batteries are pricey as well. The overall goal of mpg is to reduce the cost your spending to travel somewhere, not to have mpg bragging rights. I see this with tdi diesels getting 50mpg, sure they are edging out some mirages but they are also paying a lot more per gallon and more in repair bills as well when the diesels do fail. The cost of ownership per mile is where the mirage gives the finishing punch to the prius c, its cost of ownership is simply untouchable by new car standards.

    So if your looking for the king of MPG and consider a hybrid vs full gasoline a fair fight and cost of ownership isn't a factor the Prius C is the king in most situations. But cost of ownership is the reason for great mpg goals in the first place... irony?
    2014 ES F5MBD aka 5MT. I am a full time Uber driver, if you want to drive for uber DO not sign up without my referral code for a bonus .

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 44.8 mpg (US) ... 19.1 km/L ... 5.2 L/100 km ... 53.9 mpg (Imp)


  10. #9
    Re: the hybrid batteries. It's not as big an issue as a lot of people think.

    The battery failure rate is absolutely tiny for Toyota hybrids (Toyota said 0.05% in 2012; though much higher in Hondas). And hybrid components including batteries are warrantied either 8 or 10 years (depending on location) for all hybrids. Taxi fleets love Toyota hybrids, which is some of the strongest evidence of reliability & low operating cost despite the higher initial cost. Also, if you ever do have to replace a battery in an 8 to 10+ year old hybrid, you can easily get remanufactured or used ones for a fraction of the cost of going to the dealership.

    cost of ownership is the reason for great mpg goals in the first place
    Some people do buy for great fuel economy / emissions alone, regardless of cost of ownership. I did!

    I bought a gen. 1 Honda Insight 5-speed a few years ago just because I think it's amazing engineering and I wanted to see what it was like driving one for an extended period. I got it used, put some work into it, and a few years later was able to sell it for more than I paid, but that's beside the point -- I really just wanted to see what it was like. (And it was cool: I averaged 87.4 mpg (US), 2.7 L/100 km for 2 years.) I'll probably eventually get a used Prius for the same reason -- just to see what it's like.

    Also, some people want great fuel economy but need or want more room than the Mirage offers.

    But you're right: if low total cost of ownership of a new vehicle is what you're after, it's hard to beat the Mirage. It's won recognition for that already.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 63.2 mpg (US) ... 26.9 km/L ... 3.7 L/100 km ... 75.9 mpg (Imp)


  11. #10
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    Buy the Mirage then take the money you didn't spend on a prius c and pay for gas with that, say 3k gallons. For me that's 150k miles.

    I leased mine for $100 a month for 10 years, paid in advance. I'll be 74 when the warranty runs out.

    Any residual value is a reduction in the monthly lease, I croak, wife owns car.

    regards
    mech


        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage de 1.2 manual: 55.7 mpg (US) ... 23.7 km/L ... 4.2 L/100 km ... 66.9 mpg (Imp)


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