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Thread: Auto Dynasty Lowering Springs from Amazon.

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclopathic View Post
    @Stan with TEIN dampers which are designed for lower ride height we experienced opposite: seesaw on OEM springs and in addition to that topping out. The ride height was almost 2" higher. With AD springs travel is about 4.5" on compression. With OEMs it is ~6" with 2” less on rebound. This is spring limited I suspect you see different picture if OEM shocks limit compression stroke.

    Also we had installed 3/8” vinyl tubing on middle section, which should have increased ride height by 3/4" and also changed balance point.

    With regards to fronts initial impression they are stiffer than stock but not by much. The reduction in body roll you see is likely due to lower height not stiffer spring rate. I will try to make measurements to see how they compare to stocks.

    TEIN basis springs are rated 168/118lbs f/r (3/2.1kg). AD rated 175/205. We all know 205 rear is bogus, by loading rear and doing crude estimates they are ~20% stiffer than OEMs and TEIN rears.

    We have UR sway bar coming in couple days, and I will have to stiffen front springs because as is it blows on big hits. Unlike OEM TEIN shocks don't have enough damping on impact and need stiffer spring rates I will see what can be done there.

    If I were doing this again on the budget, and as namco pointed out it is hard to justify anything expensive for this car, I would put AD springs, do tubing on rears, replace rear shocks and then look for cheaper rear sway bar. Put better tires and camber bolts.

    $70 for springs, $5 for vinyl tubing, $80 for pair of shocks, $12 for camber kit. RT-43s are ~$60ea, the only expensive part is the sway bar..
    That's what I suspected, regarding the TEINS. Once you match the correct spring with the correct
    shock, magic happens!

    I would like to mention that in the same way I know the rear springs are floppy and weak
    compared to OEM's, the front AD springs are much stiffer than the stock springs. As in, I could
    hardly get them to move throwing my 220lbs of weight on it. The stocks I can at least get to
    budge, the AD's were not happening. This is definitely the reason for the much reduced body
    sway, as I don't think a 1.5" drop in the front only would make such a huge difference in handling.

    I've got the stocks just sitting in a box here. I'll pick up a mechanical scale tomorrow and rig a
    semi-accurate spring measuring tool out of it so we can have some hard data to make absolutes
    with.



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  3. #22
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    It is possible that AD springs have really bad quality control and differ from each other by country mile. Springs are hot wound then quenched so if heat treatment isn't uniform results will differ greatly.

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage DE 1.2 manual: 46.4 mpg (US) ... 19.7 km/L ... 5.1 L/100 km ... 55.7 mpg (Imp)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Marklovski View Post
    Don't get the Teins Street Basis. They have loads of problems on a bunch of cars.
    The dampers themselves are not bad just need higher spring rates. But they are not better than say KYB Excel-G or Monroe OESpectrums, and way more costly. TEIN basis springs are way too soft and not enough travel at least for bumpy roads so common in NE.

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage DE 1.2 manual: 46.4 mpg (US) ... 19.7 km/L ... 5.1 L/100 km ... 55.7 mpg (Imp)


  6. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclopathic View Post
    It is possible that AD springs have really bad quality control and differ from each other by country mile. Springs are hot wound then quenched so if heat treatment isn't uniform results will differ greatly.
    Good point!

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclopathic View Post
    Springs are wound with the same gage wire, so the stiffness is defined by number of coils engaged. If you look at the pictures in this thread http://mirageforum.com/forum/showthr...-spring-thread there's roughly 3.5 coils in compressed state, and another 6 locked out. So the rate should be 3.5/9.5 or ~1/3 on rebound. The wind in middle section is pretty uniform so it is pretty much on/off no transition. For the part of rebound stroke middle section stays locked.

    With vinyl tubing gap between middle coils was ~1/4", and there is ~390lbs of load per rear wheel. Compressing first stage gives 1/4"*9 = 2.25" * 50lbs =113lbs, then 265lbs/150 = ~1.75" of 2nd stage.

    Interestingly without vinyl tubing we'd have 3.4" 170lbs of 1st stage 1.4" of 2nd stage for 0.8" loser ride height.

    This is rough estimate too lazy to do it correctly.
    You must be talking about aftermarket parts. What about stock?

    Plus, I think there might be more to spring rates than wire thickness, no?

    Edit: Holy smokes talk about a late post. I didn't see all the other posts.
    Last edited by Eggman; 04-08-2016 at 04:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eggman View Post
    You must be talking about aftermarket parts. What about stock?

    Plus, I think there might be more to spring rates than wire thickness, no?
    Yes the diameter of the coil will affect stiffness but both OEM and aftermarket are constant except pigtail part.

    OEM springs are straight rate you can measure it by looking at preload. Uncompressed springs are 12" and compressed 9", 390/3 = ~130lbs.

    With regards to shocks JC Whitney lists some universal fit which may work.

    I have not tried AD springs with stock shocks look at the namco and stan comments for info.
    Last edited by cyclopathic; 04-08-2016 at 02:19 PM.

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage DE 1.2 manual: 46.4 mpg (US) ... 19.7 km/L ... 5.1 L/100 km ... 55.7 mpg (Imp)


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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclopathic View Post
    Yes the diameter of the coil will affect stiffness but both OEM and aftermarket are constant except pigtail part.

    OEM springs are straight rate you can measure it by looking at preload. Uncompressed springs are 12" and compressed 9", 390/3 = ~130lbs.

    With regards to shocks JC Whitney lists some universal fit which may work.

    I have not tried AD springs with stock shocks look at the namco and stan comments for info.
    I have no see-saw effect with AD springs and stock shocks. As you said maybe I got a good set of springs from them. Or maybe the ebay version differs from amazon version.... who knows.

    I only have 2 issues with these springs. My first issue is when hitting bumps in the rear, the oem shocks cannot dampen harder springs, period. So the spring takes the impact instead of the shock via compression. This results in the rear end feeling like its bottoming out when really its not at all. The second issue, which to me isn't really an issue, is when hard corning, the rear seems to skitter along like a pebble. I have seen this issue when putting rock hard suspension systems on cars, similar to those cheap "drift" struts for 240sx's you can find on ebay, where the shocks and springs do pretty much next to nothing but hold the tire in one spot with no flex at all (like driving with a solid pipe for a strut/shock). I am 99.9% sure its because the oem dampers cannot absorb the impact before the springs do, thus the impact is transferred through the springs into the body. But this is also why people constantly buy parts and try different combos only to sell the parts they don't like later. EDIT: I also want to point out, if I had stronger dampers, it would in fact help the springs work correctly. As you have stated, tien shocks which are better than oem but not by much, result in a different effect with AD springs. This is because they CAN absorb the impact, which is where your see-saw may come from. I think even still, we need even stiffer than tien shocks to correctly match with these springs.....

    I will be living with the oem strut/shock and AD spring combo until further notice. I want coilovers but as I said, nothing worth buying is currently for sale in the USA by a reputable source (I never buy ebay stuff, amazon I can live with they have better customer service when **** goes wrong).

  10. #28
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    We have TEIN shocks which in my opinion not bad shocks but have not enough impact damping or rather have been paired with too soft springs. The shocks appear to have multi-stage valving. On rt43s rear holding to the road no skidding you experiencing. The only other difference is the vinyl tubing in middle section.

    We also have camber bolts in the front so the front should be hooking up better.

    Perhaps the issue with rears is either due to shock valving or OEM shock intended height? Difference in balance point due to tubing?

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage DE 1.2 manual: 46.4 mpg (US) ... 19.7 km/L ... 5.1 L/100 km ... 55.7 mpg (Imp)


  11. #29
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    Alright! I was reminded that we had a mechanical scale stashed away in the basement that is
    accurate to within a half pound, and it worked wonderfully for this purpose.

    Using a motorcycle tie down and a couple chunks of plywood to stabilize, I was able to compress
    the Amazon (AD) rear spring at 1", 2" and 3" compressions. The rear OEM springs I was only able
    to compress 1" safely for reasons which will soon be clear. The first pic is at 2" compression,
    second pic is at 3" compression, third pic is the stock spring at 1" compression and the final pic is
    the test bed.

    Here's the test bed details...

    First, I measured the spring and the wood chunks for the weight to subtract from the measured
    compressed weight. For every stage of compression, I used a level (not pictured) to re-orient the
    top piece of wood so that a consistent measure could be taken from the aluminum ruler you can
    see standing upright at the back of the scale. It's not perfect, but it's pretty damn close.

    Here's the results:

    Amazon (AD) rear spring (-5lbs for weight of spring and wood)

    1" - 50lbs
    2" - 99lbs
    3" - 159lbs

    Stock OEM spring (-6lbs for weight of spring and wood)

    1" - 163lbs

    I think it should be pretty clear the rear springs are garbage at this point. I'm just uploading a
    short video to Youtube showing me hand compressing both springs that I'll post once it's done. The difference is huge and frankly, I'm not sure how these ever got OK'd to be produced. They should
    have stuck with a linear design.

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  13. #30
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    Here's the video...

    https://youtu.be/FtgyUZGQMaE



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