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Thread: Enasave rotation pattern

  1. #21
    Moderator inuvik's Avatar
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    I'll be the first to admit I'm a lazy tire rotator. I'll probably rotate the front to backs every 20k (maybe). I have almost 13k on my 2015 so far and haven't noticed any appreciable wear on the tires. I'll be happy to get 30k out of the Enasaves but I honestly don't really invest many brain cycles worrying about it.


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  3. #22
    Moderator Eggman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by inuvik View Post
    I honestly don't really invest many brain cycles worrying about it.
    +1

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 49.6 mpg (US) ... 21.1 km/L ... 4.7 L/100 km ... 59.6 mpg (Imp)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Eggman View Post
    For example I completely understand and agree with old mechanics argument against rotation, that it hides alignment problems.

    I appreciate Namco citing the source of his info - he's not just making things up.

    I have a lot to learn about cars, and there's a lot of good info about cars here. Please let's keep it to cars.
    My shop offers free alignments anytime regardless of what you came in for. Most of the time they say sure because "free" and thus IF there was an alignment issue it COULD get corrected. As I stated not every shop is out to just get money for no reason.... The old thinking that shops today have no clue is why many shops are losing business to dealers, IE they come in, we tell them they need work, they refuse and say they have their "own mechanic" and then they come back months later and the issue is still there, either their mechanic is a effing moron or they simply feel we are trying to take advantage of them, its not always the case. I have a bad habit of explaining everything to a customer in great detail so they know exactly whats going on. I DO however also understand bad communication as my own boss has a hard time articulating things to where a customer understands and thus he confuses himself and the customer. We had a customer get pissed off because she wanted a free replacement on her TPMS because she claimed we broke it. My boss tried to explain that we had not broken it, but had gone about it in a vague way, the customer kept saying "it worked before ya'll worked on it" and instead of explaining step by step what may have happened, both were left confused. I caught the back end of the conversation, an epic 30 seconds of back and fourth speech and realized she ASSUMED the sensor worked because her tire was flat and the light was on. What was NOT clarified was "did the tpms light blink upon starting the car" in which case it would have been bad sensor to begin with. That question never came out of my bosses mouth. Instead he kept saying we didn't break it and that she drove on her tire flat which broke it, which is pretty much impossible for that car unless you happen to be driving on it flat and hit a pot hole just right to where the pothole dip pushed into the tire at the right time to hit the sensor. RARE. Then she explained she had the spare on the car when she came in, which is a valid point that she DIDN'T drive on it flat, but my boss being light minded kept saying we didn't break it. She ended up saying "ill just go to the dealer" and now we lost another customer. So I understand the miscommunication very well in that regards....

    EDIT: he also could have explained that we CHECK the sensors when we do flat repairs and tire services, especially if the light is on. Its literally our job to check the light when we first start the car to pull it in. Thus if it was blinking, we would have had notated it on the paperwork, and all he had to do would be to bring out her paperwork from a day or two ago, which is no issue. Instead he went about it the wrong way and was a bit rude and kept saying "we didn't break it" instead of at least "checking" to see what may or may not have happened.....

    And yeah, I posted the link, and anyone can go there and get certified. It not only teaches about tire rotations, but proper ways of fixing them, how to mount and balance them, as well as a whole little course of TPMS and how it differs on each car and what the procedures are to reset them.... Its basically like a "general service" guideline which is what I was years ago when I originally took it.

    On that note of certification, this is a run down of the certification....

    https://www.tireindustry.org/certifi...re-service-ats

    Its been past 2 years for me so technically I an no longer certified, however, not much has changed in the tire industry since then in regards to this info, although I did have a non certified refresher course which was free via my company just about a year ago (which as i said, nothing changed)

  5. #24
    Moderator Eggman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by namco View Post
    Its been past 2 years for me so technically I an no longer certified, however, not much has changed in the tire industry since then in regards to this info, although I did have a non certified refresher course which was free via my company just about a year ago (which as i said, nothing changed)
    See, you and old mechanic have something in common.

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 49.6 mpg (US) ... 21.1 km/L ... 4.7 L/100 km ... 59.6 mpg (Imp)


  6. #25
    Member ed100's Avatar
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    I finally got around to rotating mine this weekend at about 23,450 miles. I just went front to back with no crisscross. Obviously the fronts had more wear but all the tires had pretty even wear on them.

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage DE 1.2 manual: 43.1 mpg (US) ... 18.3 km/L ... 5.5 L/100 km ... 51.8 mpg (Imp)


  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed100 View Post
    I finally got around to rotating mine this weekend at about 23,450 miles. I just went front to back with no crisscross. Obviously the fronts had more wear but all the tires had pretty even wear on them.
    I did mine at 16k. The fronts were just under 2/32 wear (of 8/32) when new. the rears were less than 1/32. Available tread is 8/32 with 6-7 usable, depending on how far you want to push it. Even wear across the treads at that mileage confirms you do not have any significant alignment issue and you have not paid for unnecessary alignments or excessive tire rotations.

    You should be good until the tires need replacement, so a single rotation gets you about 50k miles out of the tires, which is exactly what I expect out of mine.

    That's the point of my position. YOU know your car is properly aligned because the tires are telling you it is aligned. Rotating them every 5k miles is a waste of either time or money depending on whether you pay for or do the rotation yourself. It's not rocket science and it has not changed in 50 years.

    Its like taking care of yourself health wise. No doctor on the planet can make you take care of yourself and no doctor on the planet can fix what breaks when you don't take care of yourself. Take care of your car and your self and you live longer, healthier and your car gives you longer service for a lower cost.

    I rotate when I see a significant difference between the fronts and rears as far as wear. Remember the Firestone and Ford Explorer fiasco in the late 1990s. It killed Firestone (bought out by Bridgestone) and did serious damage to Ford Motor Company.

    Just in case there MIGHT be a problem reversing rotation on any radial tire and considering many are directional, I consider it PRUDENT to not reverse the rotational direction.

    The reference to dirty needles was DISGUSTING and an attempt to character assassinate by association.

    Grow up and learn from your elders, versus trying to belittle their experience, or you are doomed to repeat their mistakes, when you could avoid potential expensive lessons and even a finger or two, or more.

    Your choice. I could care less. I have a very long memory.

    regards
    mech
    Last edited by deleted user; 04-19-2016 at 12:18 AM.

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  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by old mechanic View Post
    I did mine at 16k. The fronts were just under 2/32 wear (of 8/32) when new. the rears were less than 1/32. Available tread is 8/32 with 6-7 usable, depending on how far you want to push it. Even wear across the treads at that mileage confirms you do not have any significant alignment issue and you have not paid for unnecessary alignments or excessive tire rotations.

    You should be good until the tires need replacement, so a single rotation gets you about 50k miles out of the tires, which is exactly what I expect out of mine.

    That's the point of my position. YOU know your car is properly aligned because the tires are telling you it is aligned. Rotating them every 5k miles is a waste of either time or money depending on whether you pay for or do the rotation yourself. It's not rocket science and it has not changed in 50 years.

    Its like taking care of yourself health wise. No doctor on the planet can make you take care of yourself and no doctor on the planet can fix what breaks when you don't take care of yourself. Take care of your car and your self and you live longer, healthier and your car gives you longer service for a lower cost.

    I rotate when I see a significant difference between the fronts and rears as far as wear. Remember the Firestone and Ford Explorer fiasco in the late 1990s. It killed Firestone (bought out by Bridgestone) and did serious damage to Ford Motor Company.

    Just in case there MIGHT be a problem reversing rotation on any radial tire and considering many are directional, I consider it PRUDENT to not reverse the rotational direction.

    The reference to dirty needles was DISGUSTING and an attempt to character assassinate by association.

    Grow up and learn from your elders, versus trying to belittle their experience, or you are doomed to repeat their mistakes, when you could avoid potential expensive lessons and even a finger or two, or more.

    Your choice. I could care less. I have a very long memory.

    regards
    mech
    Grow up and learn? You should take your own advise and realize technology has changed, tire material has changed, and people have researched and learned. YOU are the one refusing the new information not me. And who cares if my post about the dirty needles was disgusting, it makes a god damn valid point. What you are doing right now, by saying the new information that has went through countless testing isn't as right as your "experience" is that "its okay to use dirty needles". Its the exact same thing, "it doesn't matter if we KNOW that dirty needles WILL harm you, because in my EXPERIENCE it hasn't harmed anyone". That is what you are saying, in comparison to tires.

    You just don't want to be told off because "experience" and "namco is a young buck". Sorry man. Whens the last time you went to take an ASE? It isn't 1976 anymore, the tests have changed and so have the information inside them. What was once thought okay is now WRONG.

    Old mechanics like you still believe in fire right? Guess how many deaths that's caused? More than is admitted in the news. HEAT added to ANY part of a vehicle WILL damage its strength and longevity. Old school mechanics will disagree, but they don't know dick. We had an old crazy Russian who used fire to break everything loose, he didn't care because he was taught fire does no harm.... Don't get me wrong, you may know a few tricks here and there to get a job done quicker, when it comes to that I would be glad to listen if I haven't heard it before...... It is now taught that if you have to use FIRE to adjust an alignment, you sell parts, period. Now personally, I just use a big ****ing pipe on a locking jaw cobra pliers set, and if it can't make those stuck parts move, ill sell the need for the part, but I wont use fire. MOST of the time, a long ass pipe with the locking cobra pliers works wonders and thus they no longer need a part. But then the question is, did the person before me use fire and is THAT why its stuck?

    Saying rotations don't do ****, is like saying fire doesn't damage car components. Got a 18 year old kid right now who's father is old school, told him to use fire to get his pitman arm off his steering box so he can replace the steering box. He started off using the proper tool but it wouldn't come loose and broke the tool. So his father told him to apply heat, got it red hot, and pop, came right off after using his newly bought tool. I told him his **** has lost its hardening that the part goes through to ensure safe use. He doesn't know metallurgy so he scoffed and walked away. Last weekend he went offroading and the first part to break was his pitman arm. How many people go offroading break pitman arms? not many.... He even claimed that he never had that issue with that part on that offroad course before. Then he realized what I said about fire was right. You sound just like that kid in regards to tire rotations.

    Rather or not you believe me, old mechanic, the question wasn't "what is the best way to rotate given your experience" the question was "What's the rotation pattern for the OEM Enasave tires? Front to back, and rear tires to front (crossed)?"

    I gave the INDUSTRY STANDARD answer, rather or not you agree with it, is your own issue. Claiming that mechanics today, the young bucks, don't have a clue, or worse a shop as a whole only wanting money regardless if it fixes an issue, and not communicating properly with a customer, is outrageously rude, but its okay because you're an elder? EVEN THAT speaks miles about how wrong you are about rotations...... I'm done on this thread after this post, I don't have time to correct mental midgets, my original post about the industry standard speaks more than someone who claims to have experience and then bashes the kid providing the industry standard, and then *****es when he defends himself..... outrageous.

  9. #28
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    @namco and @old mech

    Could you please take this discussion offline? We all have the different opinions on some things, but there is no really reason to start religious war on tire rotation subject, and make it a personal one.

    There is more than one way to skin the cat, and not that one is inherently wrong or right. Can we just all get alone?

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage DE 1.2 manual: 46.4 mpg (US) ... 19.7 km/L ... 5.1 L/100 km ... 55.7 mpg (Imp)


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  11. #29
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    Just following the manual, I crossed them because I didn't see any directional markings on the tires. I don't know who's method is better in the long run, but if something is working for you then I see no reason to change it. I imagine the end results wouldn't be much different with either method. As inuvik said I wouldn't invest too many brain cycles into it, haha.
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  13. #30
    Member BillThompsonMirage-ES-CVT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclopathic View Post
    @namco and @old mech

    Could you please take this discussion offline? We all have the different opinions on some things, but there is no really reason to start religious war on tire rotation subject, and make it a personal one.

    There is more than one way to skin the cat, and not that one is inherently wrong or right. Can we just all get alone?
    Amen.


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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage ES 1.2 automatic: 40.4 mpg (US) ... 17.2 km/L ... 5.8 L/100 km ... 48.6 mpg (Imp)


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