What would get better fuel economy/mileage: Prius C or Mirage?

[live4redline]

No comment other then the fact that i would rather hack my own leg off with a dull cleaver then own a Prius. But maybe I'm the only one who feels that way, lol.

[MetroMPG]

kalifornia: I fully expect to see the Mirage vault to the top of those "lowest total cost of ownership" surveys

OK, not the top, but 2nd place in Australia: Mirage is second cheapest new car to own (RACQ 2013 - Australia)

[grsupercity]

I believe that once the Mirage has been in the market for a couple years that it would actually become cheaper then the suzuki

[Flange]

Does anybody know how to quantify the impact of the additional weight of the hybrid equipment on tyres and suspension wear and tear ? Also is anybody in a position to comment on the relative handling of say a Prius and a Mirage ?

My gut feeling is that the whole hybrid concept has more to do with politics (meeting fleet average MPG requirements) and perhaps questionable environmental concerns than sound economics. When comparing whole of life costs we need to consider that the cost of hybrids is often disguised by government financial incentives to manufacturers, rebates to new buyers and road tax breaks. The true cost of hybrids is, I would suggest, hidden behind a layer of obfuscation that would make a telecoms company blush.

Again using the (notoriously unreliable) gut instinct I feel that a light, relatively simple car such as the Mirage would have a much lower whole of life cost, both in dollar terms and in overall impact on the planet, than does something carrying the complexity of a hybrid.

Taken to it's logical extreme, surely the most economical and in fact greenest car would be something built as light as possible and powered by a simple two stroke engine of modern design, and in deference to the "average" driver a simple to operate CVT transmission ?

Cheers
Flange

[Canoehead]

I once heard someone (don't recall the source) say that we think cars are designed to move people, but the majority of what they move is the car itself - meaning that for every 1lb of human, there might be 10lbs of car to move. The guy who helped design the Urbee gives a presentation where he likens the car to a stagecoach, so instead of 8 horses pulling the coach and people, you have 40 horses pulling a coach that has another 100horses riding in it (his point being that because we demand so much power on reserve, we have to use a lot more power constantly). I've heard in terms of efficiency, the electric bike is the best - using less energy than an regular pedal bike if you count the calories and the energy it takes to produce/transport them. Not sure if that is valid, though.

[CheezyWedges]

i think the maintenance wise will be d major facts.

[Canoehead]

Seems the US hwy mileage for the PriusC is 46mpg, while the Mirage is at 44. Pretty small difference, and it might be interesting to see if it is the case in real life. Maybe at different speeds the Mirage would be better? Or maybe the electric boost helps the Prius get started, but on a long trip at a constant speed the Mirage could catch up?

[Flange]

Is there not some class-action lawsuit(s) going on in The States at present involving hybrids failing miserably to live up to the brochure due to fairly rapid degradation of battery life ?

The only thing which holds me back from total skepticism regarding hybrids is that even in little old NZ we see lots of hybrids serving as taxis.

[MetroMPG]

i think the maintenance wise will be d major facts.

The Toyota hybrids at least have proven themselves extremely reliable in over a decade of service. That's why so many taxi companies are using them now: cheap to run & lower maint/repair costs compared to other cars of similar size. Those companies aren't going to gamble with their bottom line.

Is there not some class-action lawsuit(s) going on in The States at present involving hybrids failing miserably to live up to the brochure due to fairly rapid degradation of battery life ?

There's a lawsuit in the U.S. against Ford currently for overstating the fuel economy ratings of its new C-MAX and Fusion hybrid models. Word is they "gamed" the government tests. Honda was also sued a few years back for overestimating its Civic hybrid ratings -- the plaintiff won, then it was overturned on appeal. Neither lawsuit is battery related.

I have a Honda hybrid - the first generation Insight. Its 13 year old hybrid battery is worn out. But the car still delivers phenomenal fuel economy because it's a 3-cylinder, 5-speed, light weight body, with a very aerodynamic shape. Sounds like a similar recipe for the Mirage, doesn't it?!

[MetroMPG]

Seems the US hwy mileage for the PriusC is 46mpg, while the Mirage is at 44. Pretty small difference, and it might be interesting to see if it is the case in real life. Maybe at different speeds the Mirage would be better? Or maybe the electric boost helps the Prius get started, but on a long trip at a constant speed the Mirage could catch up?

Agreed- that would be very interesting!

We could answer that if someone has produced a "speed vs. fuel consumption" graph for the Prius C, like the one we have for the Mirage 5-speed: Speed vs. mileage/fuel economy chart - Mirage 1.2L 5-spd