What would get better fuel economy/mileage: Prius C or Mirage?

[MetroMPG]

Someone asked me what I thought would get better fuel economy in city driving, the hybrid Toyota Prius C (a.k.a. Aqua) or a new 1.2L Mirage.

The answer is: it depends (TM)!

-- Driven "normally" in the city by an average driver, the Prius C will get better economy. This is mainly due to the Prius engine start/stop programming, which is much more "aggressive" than the Mirage's start/stop system (which is only available in Japan/Europe anyway, at this point). The Prius engine stops running when the accelerator is released at speeds as high as about ~60 km/h/~40 mph, so it wastes no fuel idling or when coasting (under most conditions).

-- The second reason the Prius would beat Mirage is due to its electric assist/regenerative braking, where the car captures braking energy into the hybrid battery and can then use that energy to move the car at light/moderate load and low speeds on electric power alone (e.g. when stuck in traffic).

-- That said, a manual shift Mirage driven by a motivated eco-driver/hypermiler would challenge a Prius C, but it would involve a lot of manual engine-off coasting. It would be a lot more demanding on the driver, and arguably harder on the Mirage's 12 volt battery, which isn't really designed to support the extended drains that type of driving would subject it to.

I took part in an economy run in Montreal last year, and in my 1.0L 5-speed Honda Insight with the hybrid functions completely disabled was able to beat a team with a Prius C. It was a combination of suburban/rural driving, not a hard core city route.

Noteworthy: in Japan, the only cars with better fuel consumption ratings than the Mirage 1.0L with auto stop & go are the Prius C and Prius Liftback: 1.0L Mirage/Space Star: best non-hybrid fuel economy in Japan (JC08)

Of course, the Prius C starts at $19,875 in the U.S. vs. around $13k for the Mirage. So if saving money is your goal, you'll have a very hard time (impossible?) getting the Prius C's fuel savings to make up for the lower purchase price of the little Mitsu.

[kalifornia]

so you don't think in warm weather an expert prius c driver in "hardcore" city driving could recoup the extra purchase cost over say 250,000 or more miles assuming the battery last that long? thanks for your insight

[CheezyWedges]

no proven yet hybrid batter last long. am i right?

[Daox]

The Toyota and Ford hybrids seem to have no issues. I've talked with a guy who had 350,000 miles on his first generation Prius and it was still going strong. The Hondas have had issues with their batteries, but with those you can still drive them without the hybrid system. Its still too early to tell with the other manufacturers as they haven't had cars out nearly as long. Toyota and Honda started making hybrids in the late 90s so they have been around a long time now.

[MetroMPG]

And Kia/Hyundai have a lifetime warranty on their hybrid batteries, if I'm not mistaken.

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kalifornia: I fully expect to see the Mirage vault to the top of those "lowest total cost of ownership" surveys in the U.S. The combination of very low purchase price, reliability (yet to be seen, but probably), plus very high fuel economy will put it on top.

It'd be interesting to see how many miles/km it would take to save $6,875 in fuel in a Prius C vs. a Mirage. Anybody want to run the numbers?

Of course, the Prius C would be a much nicer place to spend all that time. I've driven a few of the Toyota hybrids, and I get a real kick out of them. They're very entertaining in a nerdy, fuel economy way -- rolling video games. And it would take much less driver effort to get good MPG in the C than in a manual Mirage.

[Daox]

I threw the basic numbers into excel real quick. Assuming the Mirage gets its estimated 40 mpg, and the Prius C its 50 mpg US combined EPA rating, and also assuming gas is $4 per gallon. Based solely on the cost of gas, it would take 343,750 miles for the Prius C to break even to the Mirage.

Note that this is an unrealistic compairison because there are many more factors than just gas mileage that determine cost of ownership. For example, the Mirage is going to need more brake replacements due to the lack of regenerative braking. However, the Prius C insurance cost is likely going to be higher than the Mirage. So, there are definitely other factors that weigh in.

[kalifornia]

I guess that settles it for me.

[Canoehead]

While I don't really know what this means, I will throw in that the Prius uses an Atkinson cycle engine, which as I understand it produces less torque, so isn't viable as the sole motor, but is more efficient. I wondered why they did so well on the highway lugging all that extra battery weight.

Another aside about Prius batteries - I live in Winnipeg and it gets cold here sometimes. Just about every taxi in this city is a Prius now and they don't seem to have problems (whenever I take a cab I ask the driver how he likes the car)

[Polkiuj]

It's very simple. If you spend a lot of time on the road, get a Prius. If it's going to take 350,000 miles to break even, you better be doing 50,000 - 100,000 miles a year to see the benefits.

But let's look at some facts here. 50,000 - 100,000 miles of city driving a year? Not going to happen if you are not a cabbie.

[Canoehead]

Also, we are comparing the PriusC to the Mirage - for some applications, the size of a Prius V is necessary. Comparing the Prius V to similar-sized wagons the difference is much greater, and the vehicle "pays for itself" much sooner. When the salesman says something will pay for itself - just tell them to keep it until it has, then give you a call and you will pick it up!