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Thread: Why idle neutral logic with a torque converter?

  1. #11
    Moderator inuvik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RodeRoNL View Post
    DAF used to have a CVT with rubber belts in the seventies/eighties for its cars. But I think he meant mopeds, snowmobiles and the like.

    I have not found anything in the owners manual that indicates that it recommends shifting to neutral at prolonged stops. Idle logic makes that redundant, so I do not see why it is needed. I will have another look.
    From the USA owner's manual:

    Page 5-42 Neutral--At this position, the transmission is disengaged. It is the same as the neutral position on a manual transaxle and should be used when the vehicle is not moving for an extended length of time during driving, such as in a traffic jam.

    Page 5-43 Waiting--For short waiting periods, such as at traffic lights, the vehicle can be left in selector lever position and held stationary with the service brake. For longer waiting periods with the engine running, place the selector lever in the “N” (NEUTRAL) position and apply the parking brake, while holding the vehicle stationary with the service brake.


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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 automatic: 40.5 mpg (US) ... 17.2 km/L ... 5.8 L/100 km ... 48.6 mpg (Imp)


  2. #12
    Senior Member MightyMirageMpg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RodeRoNL View Post
    But I think he meant mopeds, snowmobiles and the like.

    k.
    Ah! lol ya i think you are correct!


    Thanks icobod.

  3. #13
    Senior Member BostonJellyBean's Avatar
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    So neutral in heavy traffic. Good to know

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2017 Mirage Es 1.2 manual: 38.7 mpg (US) ... 16.4 km/L ... 6.1 L/100 km ... 46.5 mpg (Imp)

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2017 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 42.0 mpg (US) ... 17.9 km/L ... 5.6 L/100 km ... 50.4 mpg (Imp)


  4. #14
    Senior Member IchabodCrane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyMirageMpg View Post
    Do you mean another auto application or a different application all together?
    I mean non automotive applications like snowmobiles and ATV's. These applications can actually handle more power. My ATV is over 80hp and many of the above applications are 100hp and even more.
    There are even a couple of ATV applications that use a system like our Mirages where the belt is always in contact and under tension with a centrifugal clutch handling the slippage/engagement stress in place of our torque converter.
    Will weld for beer.

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage SE 1.2 automatic: 45.3 mpg (US) ... 19.3 km/L ... 5.2 L/100 km ... 54.5 mpg (Imp)


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    Senior Member MightyMirageMpg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IchabodCrane View Post
    I mean non automotive applications like snowmobiles and ATV's. These applications can actually handle more power. My ATV is over 80hp and many of the above applications are 100hp and even more.
    There are even a couple of ATV applications that use a system like our Mirages where the belt is always in contact and under tension with a centrifugal clutch handling the slippage/engagement stress in place of our torque converter.
    Thanks for the clarification. I used to have a centrifugal sheav cvt (best I can describe it) driven snowmobile (1980s) so I should've caught onto what you meant! 80hp on a ATV sounds like a lot of fun, I bet it screams!

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    Senior Member IchabodCrane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyMirageMpg View Post
    Thanks for the clarification. I used to have a centrifugal sheav cvt (best I can describe it) driven snowmobile (1980s) so I should've caught onto what you meant! 80hp on a ATV sounds like a lot of fun, I bet it screams!
    It does.. and it requires an overwhelming amount of maintenance too.
    Will weld for beer.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage SE 1.2 automatic: 45.3 mpg (US) ... 19.3 km/L ... 5.2 L/100 km ... 54.5 mpg (Imp)


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  8. #17
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    when to use neutral

    Quote Originally Posted by inuvik View Post
    From the USA owner's manual:

    Page 5-42 Neutral--At this position, the transmission is disengaged. It is the same as the neutral position on a manual transaxle and should be used when the vehicle is not moving for an extended length of time during driving, such as in a traffic jam.

    Page 5-43 Waiting--For short waiting periods, such as at traffic lights, the vehicle can be left in selector lever position and held stationary with the service brake. For longer waiting periods with the engine running, place the selector lever in the N (NEUTRAL) position and apply the parking brake, while holding the vehicle stationary with the service brake.
    Ah. OK thanks, it seems I have missed that part. Still, I do not think it is necessary to shift to neutral (it says should, not must) as the torque converter is able to take the heat of idling. But, good to know the owners manual says something about it after all.

  9. #18
    Moderator Eggman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyMirageMpg View Post
    The abs still activates with the traction control off
    Quote Originally Posted by Eggman View Post
    I gotta test this while it's still winter here lol.
    MightyMirageMpg is right. I tested this yesterday and found that with ASC set to off the anti-lock braking is still active.

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 48.8 mpg (US) ... 20.8 km/L ... 4.8 L/100 km ... 58.6 mpg (Imp)


  10. #19
    Administrator MetroMPG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eggman View Post
    Yeah it's crazy I think the CVT in the Mirage is also used in some Nissan models. I wonder if it's used in the Versa? I think it is.
    Yes - same CVT in the Versa sedan/Note and in the Chevy Spark.

    Possibly different programming/features, though.


        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage base ES 1.2 manual: 54.0 mpg (US) ... 23.0 km/L ... 4.4 L/100 km ... 64.9 mpg (Imp)


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