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Thread: How important is rim weight?

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    How important is rim weight?

    Well, I had convinced myself, after reading a ton of post, that I absolutely want Konig Heliums (unless I found a killer deal on a set of Mini Imolas) and Bridgestone Ecopias, for my new wheelset. However, after doing some more searching, I find Konig Illusions for $70 cheaper, for the set. They weigh 3 lbs more per rim. Now I am second guessing myself. I could save $70, with a rim that is just as aesthetically pleasing to me, but is 12 lbs heavier per set. I do not want to hinder MPG and performance, but how much difference will 3 lbs make?


    Side note- The wheels are the same size and only 2mm of offset difference.



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    Senior Member Top_Fuel's Avatar
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    For 3 pounds per wheel, I would just buy the wheels you want to look at on your car for the next X years. If you're about to drop $700 on a set of wheels and tires, I wouldn't let a $70 savings be a deciding factor.

    If you're willing to go up to wheels weighing 14.5 pounds (Konig Illusions), you might want to check out Rota wheels.

    Here are my personal notes about Rota wheels. I researched them quite a bit because I almost went with a set of Slipstreams...

    Rota is an aftermarket wheel company that makes several cast aluminum wheels that will fit the Mirage. Some of Rota's wheels are kock-offs..or affectionately known on-line as "fake" wheels. In other words, they are copies of more expensive forged wheels.

    Some reasons to consider Rota wheels

    1. They have a good selection of styles in 4x100 bolt patterns
    2. Their wheels are usually available in multiple colors...and some are available polished
    3. A set of 4 is usually less than $450 shipped...so they're affordable
    4. Many are available in 6.5 widths and offsets that will work on a Mirage
    5. Many of their 15" wheels are surprisingly light...weighing 13 pounds or less (FYI: A 14x4.5 steel Mirage wheel weighs 13 pounds)


    You won't find Rota wheels at the Tire Rack or Discount Tire. You normally have to buy these from sellers on eBay or Amazon.

    Here are some examples of Rota wheels that are available in a 15x6.5" version with a 40mm offset. This is a fairly conservative 15" wheel size if you want to go bigger without running into clearance issues.

    Here are the weights of these 15x6.5 wheels (in pounds):

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    I will take into consideration everything you posted!


    And...

    I almost posted a comment in another thread that you commented on, earlier today, with a very in depth explanation and screen shot of different wheel offsets, which you had obviously included the exact dimensions that were being discussed, but I didn't feel it would be the best place, since I didn't start the thread. However, this is my thread. Thank you soooo much top fuel, for taking the time and energy to educate and help people who are asking for help! I have been on various hobbyist forums over the years and it is always such a nice thing when someone steps up. I try to help people when I can, but you have really went above and beyond on this forum.

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    Still Plays With Cars Loren's Avatar
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    2-3 pounds is usually my threshold for what I can feel on a sub-2400 pound car.

    From a performance perspective, it has been estimated that a pound of wheel weight (or anything else that rotates in the drivetrain) is roughly equivalent to 4 pounds of weight anywhere else on the car. Shedding wheel weight pays huge dividends in acceleration, deceleration and general handling.

    It makes more of a difference on a lighter car. Think of it as a percentage of the weight of the car.

    If the wheels are 3 pounds heavier, you have 4 of them, and wheel weight is roughly equivalent to 4 pounds of vehicle weight... so that's 3 x 4 x 4 = 48 pounds. Kinda like lugging an extra 48 pounds around in the trunk every day. It's subtle, but on a 2100 pound car, you can feel that a little bit. 48 pounds is about 2.3%.

    But, unlike other mods you might do to a car, wheel weight affects EVERYTHING. Not JUST acceleration, not JUST braking, not JUST steering responsiveness, but all of it.

    On the the Mirage, because it's so light and underpowered, I'd recommend keeping your total wheel/tire package weight to as much below 30 pounds as you can afford to.

    18 pound tire and 12 pound wheel... that's a pretty sweet spot. You can easily get lighter than that with a lighter tire. And there's no reason to go heavier than that. Even that is a solid 4-5 pounds heavier than the stock alloy wheels and stock tires.

    You can't go wrong with the Helium wheels. Good choice!

    Oh, and the effects on fuel economy will depend on how you drive and the conditions you drive in. If you do a lot of stop and go, then less mass to accelerate will help a tiny bit. If you do higher speed driving with a lot of pulse & glide, then heavier wheels might arguably be a little better because they'll extend your coasts. (but they'll take more energy to accelerate, so the benefit would be minimal)
    Simplify and add lightness.

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    Thanks for all the in depth info! I am absolutely leaning towards the Helium rims (again, unless some Mini Imolas come up for a good deal, I know from another thread that they are similar in weight to the Heliums) especially with what you have pointed out.

    "You can easily get lighter than that with a lighter tire." Any of these that you can list offhand? I was going with the
    Bridgestone Ecopia EP422 Plus Touring ECO Tire 185/55R15 based off some postings here and good reviews elsewhere. I would definitely be interested in a similarly priced tire that has as good, or better, weight/low rolling resistance/tread wear/etc.

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    Still Plays With Cars Loren's Avatar
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    Tire Rack usually lists tire weights. Most major manufacturers will also have weight among the specs listed somewhere on their website for their tires.

    For 195-205ish performance tires, I try to stay under 20 pounds. 19 pounds is usually achievable.

    For 165-175 tires, you can get down to around 15 pounds. I think the stock Mirage tires are 14.

    I think the crazy 155's I put on my Mirage are 14 pounds, but I'm weird like that. (on Heliums, that's 26 pounds... woot!)

    185/55-15 is a great compromise for economy and performance, and a really good fit for a 15x6.5 wheel. And it's also not so wide (with correct offset) that it causes clearance issues on the Mirage.

    Looks like most tires in that size are 16 pounds, which is pretty good. Those Ecopias look really expensive, though. Wouldn't be my first choice. There are a lot of sub-$90 tires that have better overall ratings on the Tire Rack. All depends on your priorities and needs, I guess. Being a performance-oriented driver living in warm and rainy Florida, I usually go for "summer tires". I like to dig into the Tire Rack test reports and examine things like wet cornering and braking ability. You can look at consumer reviews, too... but, that's a lot more subjective and you have to accept that somebody might think that a mediocre tire is FANTASTIC just because it's the best tire they've personally owned (and it's new, so it's going to be way better than the old tires that they replaced). Professional reviews are much more informative. If Tire A can consistently stop 10 feet shorter in the rain than Tire B... that can be the difference between being in somebody's trunk or not.

    Unfortunately, TR hasn't tested ALL of their tires, only the more popular/better ones in any given category.

    A few examples:
    Sumitomo HTR ENHANCE LX2 is available in your size for $68. Wet stopping distance is 132.2 and 0.64G in the wet.

    Kumho PA31 is available in your size for $82. Wet stopping distance is 130.2 and 0.66G in the wet. Still not great.

    Yokohama Avid Ascend GT is available in your size for $106. Wet stopping distance is 111.3 (!) and 0.71G in the wet. Much better.

    And for kicks:
    Continental Extreme Contact Sport, NOT available in economy car sizes. Wet stopping distance is 107.2 (!!!) and 0.80G in the wet. These tires are better in the wet than a lot of tires are in the dry! And that's why I put them on my wife's Miata. 25 feet shorter stopping distance than the typical all-season tire. Ponder that.

    There's more to tires than economy ratings and the random reviews of some casual drivers on a car forum. More than just weight, too.
    Last edited by Loren; 07-08-2020 at 09:19 PM.
    Simplify and add lightness.

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    Well, that's gives me a lot to think about!

    I was mainly going for the Ecopias because I don't want to lose fuel economy and they seemed good overall. They are much more reasonably priced on amazon at $94/each. However, seeing the testing on those Yokohamas really gives me pause. My wife drives very cautiously anyways, but is sometimes uncomfortable in the rain, and seeing how much better they stop in the rain could be worth an extra $40/set and a few less MPG. I drive much more sporty-ish (not aggressively ) than my wife, and would probably like the better handling too.

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    I appreciate Loren's perspective and agree on the weight angle. If you have a chance to reduce your "unsprung" weight...then I would do it.

    My take on tires is a little different, because my goals/needs are different. Handling and wet performance are not my highest priorities. You guys live in Florida...so having an excellent rain tire is an important consideration.

    Remember my driving situation is unique and my tire goals are narrow. I drive conservatively and I drive a lot of miles (20,000+/year). So I buy the highest quality tire that combines low rolling resistance with long tread life. The Ecopia was the best fit for my goals. Price wasn't a consideration, but it's a bonus that I can buy this tire at Costco for about the same price that some pay for off-brand 14" tires.

    I'm still driving on the Ecopias I put on my car when it was new...90,000 miles ago. That's not too bad for a tire with a 70K mile tread life warranty. I'll admit they need to be replaced...now. I already have my next set mounted and ready to install...on wheels lighter than Heliums (more on that in another post! ).

    Ecopias have netted me an extra 2mpg (vs a similar non-LRR tire)...which translates to about 100 gallons of gas over 80K miles. At $2.25/gallon, the fuel savings paid for 60% of my original tire cost. My tire cost-per-mile is probably the lowest on this forum.

    One other consideration... How much do you drive? If it's less than 10K miles/year, a 70K or 80K mile tire may not make sense for you. The tire will need to be replaced long before the tread has worn out. I just had to replace the tires on my wife's new (used) car even though they looked great. They were 10 years old and were horrible in any kind of weather.

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 52.2 mpg (US) ... 22.2 km/L ... 4.5 L/100 km ... 62.6 mpg (Imp)


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    Thanks for more info/opinions!

    I'm trying to take in everyone's experience and situations and adapt them to my own. I do care about MPG, but wet/dry stopping distance is a concern also. All the tires I am looking at are with $20 of each other, so price isn't a huge concern. I would estimate our yearly mileage to be 12-15k.

    I am most likely going to check out some Mini Imola wheels that are for sale tomorrow. I really like how the Imola wheels look on a Mirage and at 12lbs a piece, the weight is perfect. They look to be in good shape and come with brand new tires(that are much lower profile than I prefer unfortunately). If I get them I will probably sell the tires off them and mount up a new set.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bralexander View Post
    ...going to check out some Mini Imola wheels that are for sale tomorrow.
    If I had to pick an OEM wheel to run on my Mirage, that would be the one! Keep us posted.


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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 52.2 mpg (US) ... 22.2 km/L ... 4.5 L/100 km ... 62.6 mpg (Imp)


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