I'm planning to make a trip to the dealer either late today or tomorrow (more likely). I plan to get a 2017 model since I want a manual transmission, and they are asking the full list price for the 2018 ES models. They are asking about 2 thousand below list price for the 2017 models. I have a couple questions.

1. Does anyone have any advice or successful experiences as to negotiating tactics?

2. How much can I reasonably expect them to shave off the asking price for these cars?

I have gone back and forth between the ES model and the SE model and have tentatively decided on the SE model even though I don't like the push button start or the automatic air conditioner. I want that backup camera. But I will look at an ES model just for good measure.

Wish me luck!