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Thread: Warm Air Intake - Intercooler as an intake heater

  1. #11
    Administrator Daox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eggman View Post
    So, would using the throttle body heating circuit be a good choice for this intake heater idea?

    I don't see why not.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fummins View Post
    Not trying to pick a fight but not all vehicles run coolant through the throttle body.
    I'm curious which cars you've seen without warmed throttle bodies? I can't recall ever seeing a fuel injected engine without.


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  2. #12
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    I've never looked into warm air intakes at all. But do you really need hot air intake once your car is up to temp? Like on a +35C/95F day I can't see the advantage. But on a -35C-31F day I can. I guess it'd be easy enough to plumb in a solenoid or valve to stop the flow of coolant to the air heater if you wanted.

    Now that I think of it, my truck has an intake heater on it. It doesn't have glow plugs like most diesels usually do, instead it has an electric grid heater that heats the air as it enters the cylinder head. They take a lot of power to run but maybe that might be an option to look into? Name:  intake heater.jpg
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    It's been a while since I've worked on anything new other than a mitsubishi or nissan. But most dodge v8 or 3.9l v6 with mfi up to 2001, most fords with MFI from 1980's to 2000's, any chev with TBI didn't have coolant in the throttle body. That's just what I can think of of hand, probably more? I'm guessing most imports probably did have coolant running through them.

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  4. #13
    Moderator Eggman's Avatar
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    I like the airbox idea.



    Something like this little guy from Amazon goes for $10 and the particular one could be chosen according to what size fits.

    Aside from fit, what other criteria should be considered? I know the Mitsubishi coolant is particular to the Mirage - for aluminum components, right?

    I mean, what's $10 in a heat exchanger, some hose, tees, & clamps - $25? What harm could be done?

    Edit: what kind of coolant system pressure are we looking at on the Mirage? Would definitely want to make sure this can tolerate at least the design pressure.
    Last edited by Eggman; 10-24-2017 at 04:16 PM.

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    Moderator Eggman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fummins View Post
    They take a lot of power to run but maybe that might be an option to look into?
    Once up to temperature, the engine coolant is a ready source of heat and can be used to keep the fuel mapping out of the freezing zone and into warmer climate type of operation.

    I'm looking at tackling the winter weather MPG hit the Mirage seems to suffer... That is, beyond a cold start.

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 49.8 mpg (US) ... 21.2 km/L ... 4.7 L/100 km ... 59.7 mpg (Imp)


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    Senior Member MightyMirageMpg's Avatar
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    If my math is anywhere close you need too extract about 1500 btu (hour) too raise the temp 20* American at 3000rpm.

    I used 75cfm (1.2 liters at 3k rpm)

    So, it would be 75cfm x 20* x 1.08 (Sea level constant) is roughly 1500btu.

    Sorry i don't know The other half of the calculations you need i didn't get that far in school lol

    But using that math and Google you should be able to nail your calculation and could possibly determine the exact size exchanger you would need. The smallest cooler you can use, should be used because you are removing volume and increasing drag.

    You Will need to know the flow rate of the coolant hoses butt that's simple math once you know pressure, and size

    Have you considered sealing Your intake to The radiator in part or whole? A turbocharger is by far The coolest WAI.

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    Administrator Daox's Avatar
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    If you can physically fit that into the airbox, go for it. Its a good start I'd say. I'd get the largest one you can that will fit. You can always reduce flow to it. If you go too small, you can't really make it put out more heat.

    Also, if you're interested, I still have the airbox half from developing the MAF sensor housing I 3d print. Its yours if you pay shipping.

    Most coolant systems are around 15ish psi, but some range up to 30 psi. 5/8" radiator / heater core hose is pretty standard and cheap.

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 automatic: 49.0 mpg (US) ... 20.8 km/L ... 4.8 L/100 km ... 58.8 mpg (Imp)


  10. #17
    Moderator Eggman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyMirageMpg View Post
    You Will need to know the flow rate of the coolant hoses butt that's simple math once you know pressure, and size
    That’s an interesting point. If the throttle body heating circuit is used, I'm not sure how I could measure pressure and flow rate there. In fact, I wonder if this circuit is at all modulated to keep some sort of constant temperature at the throttle body.

    Quote Originally Posted by MightyMirageMpg View Post
    Have you considered sealing Your intake to The radiator in part or whole? A turbocharger is by far The coolest WAI.
    I started with the big burrito approach but am more drawn to the clean appearance and potential of this heat exchanger.

    I took my air box off for some photos and measurements.


    I measured the inside of the half downstream of the filter and I reckon it's about 9" x 3".

    I left the snorkel and resonator box thingy off when I put the air filter box back on.

    That rear port would be an excellent candidate to use for drawing warm air over the exhaust manifold.

    Three bolts with 10mm hex heads, loosen one hose clamp and it came off pretty easy.

    I made sure to replace all fasteners so I didn't leave any open holes on the valve cover.

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 49.8 mpg (US) ... 21.2 km/L ... 4.7 L/100 km ... 59.7 mpg (Imp)


  11. #18
    Senior Member Top_Fuel's Avatar
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    When I first read these ideas I figured you guys were crazy and they wouldn't work...there's too much air moving over something like a small heater core to increase the air temp significantly.

    But when I stopped to think about it, an intercooler is the same concept...just in reverse. An intercooler uses a cooled heat exchanger to lower the intake air temperature instead of raising it. What about a heated air exchanger that is heated by engine coolant? Hmm...

    If you took a water-to-air intercooler and circulated engine coolant through it, it should raise the intake air temperature instead of lowering it.

    Here is a simple water-to-air intercooler that looks like it would be adaptable to the air intake of a Mirage. Figure out how to circulate engine coolant through this device and move all of the intake air through it...and I don't see why it wouldn't work.

    Here is one of these intercooolers installed on a supercharged Miata. Notice all of the intake air from the supercharger is being routed through the water-to-air intercooler (which is having cool water circulated through it).

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    My only question is if these devices are somewhat restrictive because they are meant for boosted applications. But the Mirage's CFM air requirement should be fairly small compared to what these things are designed to flow.
    Last edited by Top_Fuel; 10-25-2017 at 01:08 PM.

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 51.6 mpg (US) ... 21.9 km/L ... 4.6 L/100 km ... 61.9 mpg (Imp)


  12. #19
    Moderator Eggman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Fuel View Post
    Here is a simple water-to-air intercooler that looks like it would be adaptable to the air intake of a Mirage. Figure out how to circulate engine coolant through this device and move all of the intake air through it...and I don't see why it wouldn't work.
    This was my initial inspiration but as the discussion moved along, a heat exchanger in the air filter box offers a cleaner fit and costs only 10% of your sample intercooler!

    I'm almost certain the inline intercooler device would be more effective. I'm not certain the additional performance is worth the additional cost.

    I'm not certain any of this is worth the additional cost... But it's fun to ponder, especially with the forum Brain Trust.
    Last edited by Eggman; 10-25-2017 at 07:11 PM.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 49.8 mpg (US) ... 21.2 km/L ... 4.7 L/100 km ... 59.7 mpg (Imp)


  13. #20
    Senior Member Top_Fuel's Avatar
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    Normally water-to-air intercoolers use a separate mini-radiator, a reservoir tank, a circulation pump, and a lot of extra hoses to move the fluid around. I'm thinking that if you could run an intercooler in series with the heater core, you wouldn't need anything additional besides extra heater hoses...

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    Hmmm...here are the heater hose locations...

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        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 51.6 mpg (US) ... 21.9 km/L ... 4.6 L/100 km ... 61.9 mpg (Imp)


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