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Thread: Warm Air Intake - Intercooler as an intake heater

  1. #21
    Moderator Eggman's Avatar
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    What do you think about using the coolant circuit for the throttle body? Would it provide enough BTUs to this heat exchanger?

    And why series and not parallel?


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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 49.8 mpg (US) ... 21.2 km/L ... 4.7 L/100 km ... 59.8 mpg (Imp)


  2. #22
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    I'd go in series to make sure the hot coolant reaches the heater core first. Unless you don't get much cold weather?

  3. #23
    Senior Member Top_Fuel's Avatar
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    Before we get too bogged down with intercoolers and extra coolant hoses, check out this old thread from a few years ago. This member appeared to have verified success just by drawing in warm intake air from the back of the engine by the exhaust manifold...

    Last February I ran the warm air intake back to the exhaust manifold shield with 3 inch dryer duct, covered in duct insulation.
    My intake temperatures are consistently 100 degrees F above ambient temps, with most of my grille blocked.
    Thread here: Warm Air Intake

    Be sure to check out Post 17 of the thread above.

    Those are some impressive results for about $10 of materials and a few minutes of time. I may give this one a try.

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 51.5 mpg (US) ... 21.9 km/L ... 4.6 L/100 km ... 61.9 mpg (Imp)


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  5. #24
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    Yep.



    I had some laundry dryer duct on hand that I put to use. It rattles a bit and I'm not fond of the looks, but it serves for this experiment.

    After one day I'm seeing intake air temperatures roughly 25℉ - 30℉ higher than ambient. I'm sure if I somehow tighten up the connections I would see higher temperatures.

    While cheaper, I still wonder if the interwarmer would be more effective. Besides, that's why I started this thread in the first place.

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 49.8 mpg (US) ... 21.2 km/L ... 4.7 L/100 km ... 59.8 mpg (Imp)


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    Senior Member Top_Fuel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eggman View Post
    While cheaper, I still wonder if the interwarmer would be more effective. Besides, that's why I started this thread in the first place.
    OK...then back to the interwarmer discussion...

    The interwarmer would look a lot cooler...that's for sure...lol.

    A potential issue I'm wondering about is this...

    Typically you want all cooling system components (radiator, heater core) at or below the level of the radiator and/or coolant overflow tank. This is to allow proper air bleeding to prevent air pockets from forming in the system which could potentially reduce the effectiveness of the interwarmer and heater core...or in a worst case scenario cause an engine overheating condition. Having the interwarmer up by the airbox (above the level of the overflow tank) would almost certainly present air pocket issues.

    Ideally I think you would want to mount the interwarmer at the level of the radiator to avoid these issues. I looked last night and there is a lot of space between the radiator and the alternator on the passenger side of the engine compartment. Standing in front of the car looking at the front end, I think a barrel-type interwarmer could be installed there vertically...something like this...

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    Last edited by Top_Fuel; 10-26-2017 at 04:16 PM.

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 51.5 mpg (US) ... 21.9 km/L ... 4.6 L/100 km ... 61.9 mpg (Imp)


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    Senior Member MightyMirageMpg's Avatar
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    Where does the car get the intake temp value from, and what do you think of as a safe "max' iat value?

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    Senior Member Top_Fuel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyMirageMpg View Post
    Where does the car get the intake temp value from...
    The intake air temperature (IAT) sensor is a separate sensor in some vehicles. This sensor is found somewhere in the intake tubing or air cleaner box. In the case of the Mirage, the IAT sensor is actually part of the Mass Airflow sensor, which is located here...

    Name:  MAF Location.jpg
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    This image from the shop manual shows how the IAT is actually part of the MAF sensor...

    Name:  IAT Location.jpg
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    ...what do you think of as a safe "max' iat value?
    That's a good question. In the thread I referenced above in Post #23, the forum member said his IAT temps were 100 degrees above ambient. That almost seems too hot...especially in warmer months. I would think the engine could be running dangerously lean if the incoming air temp is always something like 150 degrees. You would be running the risk of detonation (in which the ECU pulls timing and you lose power) or potentially overheating. Warm air is good...but I would be concerned about intake air temps well above 100 degrees in the summer.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 51.5 mpg (US) ... 21.9 km/L ... 4.6 L/100 km ... 61.9 mpg (Imp)


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  11. #28
    Moderator Eggman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Fuel View Post
    Typically you want all cooling system components (radiator, heater core) at or below the level of the coolant overflow tank. This is to allow proper air bleeding to prevent air pockets from forming in the system which could potentially reduce the effectiveness of the interwarmer and heater core...or in a worst case scenario cause an engine overheating condition. Having the interwarmer up by the airbox (above the level of the overflow tank) would almost certainly present air pocket issues.
    That’s a very good point - a potential show-stopper. Relocating the heat exchanger would complicate the layout.

    Quote Originally Posted by MightyMirageMpg View Post
    Where does the car get the intake temp value from, and what do you think of as a safe "max' iat value?
    The intake air temperature is part of the mass air flow sensor found at the discharge of the air filter box.

    Considering the 3A92 uses a plastic intake manifold, maximum temperature is a very valid concern.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 49.8 mpg (US) ... 21.2 km/L ... 4.7 L/100 km ... 59.8 mpg (Imp)


  12. #29
    Moderator Eggman's Avatar
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    Top_Fuel beat me to it.

    Doggone 'smart' phone keyboards haha.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 49.8 mpg (US) ... 21.2 km/L ... 4.7 L/100 km ... 59.8 mpg (Imp)


  13. #30
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    With this layout, the heat exchanger needs to be inside the air filter box in order to heat up the intake air temperature sensor and to benefit from the filter keeping things clean.

    Also, I think because each car responds differently to higher intake air temperatures, this is all very much experimental.


        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 49.8 mpg (US) ... 21.2 km/L ... 4.7 L/100 km ... 59.8 mpg (Imp)


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