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Thread: [Engine swap] 4G63 into a 2014 Mirage (2L turbo)

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ares View Post
    Would hate to live in sydney for your automotive rules.

    Below are a couple of AWD racecars that are about mirage length. Both seem to be doing just fine. Maybe you need to work on your driving skills?

    Suzuki SX4 pikes peak:


    Ford Fiesta gymkhana edition:
    Notice the huge downforce on those?
    Look awd smart cars, and the rwd converted ones. Can hardly be kept in a straight line. Fwd biased AWD systems torque steer bad. My mates GTiR is a handful when it hits boost. Not me who can't drive, I drive fine.



  2. #42
    Senior Member Ares's Avatar
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    So you mean to tell me, someone who's going through ALL the trouble of putting AWD in a mirage won't do the necessary work for downforce?!?!?

    As far as I can tell, other than front lip/splitter, the focus does not really have much. I'm sure there's a little underbody channels here and there. Plus, the cars above are twice, and three times the power.

    Pretty sure the ECU can be forced to a set RWD bias.

    FWD biased AWD.

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  4. #43
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    The Suzuki pictured produces massive amounts of down force at relatively low speeds (50 mph and above). Ken Block's Ford doesn't have much down force but it is designed to be VERY responsive and twitchy. This allows VERY fast directional changes.


    I have swapped a V-8 into a friend's Jeep that had been lowered, but was still 4WD. I took it to the drag strip once and it was a handful trying to keep it pointed in a straight line. This was with only 230 hp and 310 ft lbs to the wheels.


    AWD vs FWD


    This is a never ending battle. There are pros and cons on each side. For less than 300 hp, a front wheel drive car can be as fast, if not faster than an AWD car due to weight difference, in an otherwise identical car. When dealing with anything over about 300 hp, AWD will be faster as you will be able to get on the throttle earlier in a corner vs FWD.


    I have road raced a FWD car that put down 279 hp and 311 ft lbs to the front wheels. I had 225/50/15 Kuhmo race tires on the car but I still had to lower the boost level of the car down from 19 psi to 13 psi in order to help decrease sliding when coming out of the corners. However, even with lowered power output (approximately 230 whp) the car was still fast enough that I was able to pass 3 Dodge Vipers on the track. With a better prepared track, wider tires, and better suspension I would not have had to decrease boost levels and I would have been even faster.

    A majority of people can not handle factory cars at their limit in corners on a track. So, before anyone that wants to race starts adding power, learn how to drive first. You will NEVER be able to explore the limits of a car on public streets. The more power you have, the smaller the margin for error, and the higher the danger is at going past those limits.
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  5. #44
    Carmageddon m4v3r1ck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ares View Post
    Pretty sure this is AWD. And turbo.



    Can't believe you're complaining about AWD. Mitsu has been proud of their AWD tech. It may not be as good as the STi's but it's pretty damn good. AWD would eat out of any FWD in road racing any day every day.

    Currently, the best FWD car, the Ford Fiesta ST does not even match an older Lancer Evo in road racing.

    Lastly, that "newer engine, newer technology" is bull****. People are still using the 2jz in newer cars or even Nissan's RB engines.
    Agrees with this

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2013 Mirage 1.0 manual: 47.5 mpg (US) ... 20.2 km/L ... 5.0 L/100 km ... 57.0 mpg (Imp)


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    Quote Originally Posted by 91cavgt View Post
    A majority of people can not handle factory cars at their limit in corners on a track. So, before anyone that wants to race starts adding power, learn how to drive first. You will NEVER be able to explore the limits of a car on public streets. The more power you have, the smaller the margin for error, and the higher the danger is at going past those limits.
    Don't agree with you there, I have explored my car's ability on public streets, ignoring speed limits and you find yourself doing a very tight roundabout at 55 km/hour and feel your car slides away (oversteer? I always mix those two terms). Or 90 degrees turn on 65 km/hour and feel your car slides away so ... that's your utter limit ;-)

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2013 Mirage 1.0 manual: 47.5 mpg (US) ... 20.2 km/L ... 5.0 L/100 km ... 57.0 mpg (Imp)


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    Senior Member GrnBn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by m4v3r1ck View Post
    Don't agree with you there, I have explored my car's ability on public streets, ignoring speed limits and you find yourself doing a very tight roundabout at 55 km/hour and feel your car slides away (oversteer? I always mix those two terms). Or 90 degrees turn on 65 km/hour and feel your car slides away so ... that's your utter limit ;-)
    If it slides away nose first it is understeer, something very common in front wheel drive vehicles. If it slides away rear first, it is oversteer, something more common in rear wheel drive vehicles. However, your personal exploration of speed doesn't invalidate the person you quote's statement. They say most drivers will not explore the limits of their car, which is true. You may have driven your car at a "10 out of 10" level at some point(s), but I doubt you do so all day, every day. Most drivers never push their vehicle at all, other than to accelerate for an on-ramp. We few enthusiasts can say," on this particular roundabout my car tires reach their traction limit at about this speed when I drive this particular line through the turn" but most people feel perturbed when their tires chirp at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by m4v3r1ck View Post
    Don't agree with you there, I have explored my car's ability on public streets, ignoring speed limits and you find yourself doing a very tight roundabout at 55 km/hour and feel your car slides away (oversteer? I always mix those two terms). Or 90 degrees turn on 65 km/hour and feel your car slides away so ... that's your utter limit ;-)

    Pushing your car to the limit in one corner does not equal pushing your car to the limit and being able to control it. Being able to fully control your car means taking your car to the limit, in multiple corners, under all different conditions, and controlling it when your suspension is loaded AND unloaded. I have met and talked to a LOT of people that said their skills exceed their cars capability, yet only 1 was able to prove that he in fact had skills that exceeded the car's limitations. I'm not talking about sports cars here, I'm talking about your typical grocery getter.

    When you can go into a very high speed corner, then before your car settles down, you suddenly have to go around a VERY sharp corner in the opposite direction, in a front wheel drive car, and keep the car under control, then you might be able to say your driving skills might exceed the car's capability.

    I'm not trying to put you down, I've just seen a LOT of people claim what you are claiming because of their experience on the street, only to be humbled by their own car on the track.
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    Senior Member Cani Lupine's Avatar
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    I took my last car, a 1996 Ford Aspire, up and down a particular mountain pass regularly (Santiam Pass between Sweet Home and Sisters, Oregon, 11 miles of narrow and twisty 6% grade), and enjoyed pushing it a bit. Since it was a public road, I never did anything too crazy, but found that it would comfortably hold corners at 20 MPH above the suggested cornering speed with enough of a margin of safety to react to road hazards. With high mileage and low power, I usually took it easy going up and went fast on the downhills. That mountain did kick my ass a couple times, once in the snow, and once in the wet. The snow was totally my own fault for attempting to pass, but in the wet, I got in a corner too hot without realizing it and ended up with lift-off oversteer and spun out. Granted, it was also in the upper 30s and my tires had about 4/32" of somewhat hardened tread left, but it still shook me up.

    I can't claim I've truly explored the limits of my cars, but I refuse to try on public roads. Give me a closed circuit and THEN I'll see what it can do!

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage DE 1.2 manual: 49.2 mpg (US) ... 20.9 km/L ... 4.8 L/100 km ... 59.1 mpg (Imp)


  11. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cani Lupine View Post
    I took my last car, a 1996 Ford Aspire, up and down a particular mountain pass regularly (Santiam Pass between Sweet Home and Sisters, Oregon, 11 miles of narrow and twisty 6% grade), and enjoyed pushing it a bit. Since it was a public road, I never did anything too crazy, but found that it would comfortably hold corners at 20 MPH above the suggested cornering speed with enough of a margin of safety to react to road hazards. With high mileage and low power, I usually took it easy going up and went fast on the downhills. That mountain did kick my ass a couple times, once in the snow, and once in the wet. The snow was totally my own fault for attempting to pass, but in the wet, I got in a corner too hot without realizing it and ended up with lift-off oversteer and spun out. Granted, it was also in the upper 30s and my tires had about 4/32" of somewhat hardened tread left, but it still shook me up.

    I can't claim I've truly explored the limits of my cars, but I refuse to try on public roads. Give me a closed circuit and THEN I'll see what it can do!

    That is the safe thing to do. Join a local autocross club where you can safely push your car to the limits at lower speeds. If you want to push your car to the limit at high speeds, go to a local road course and do some driver education events.
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  12. #50
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    Hi DirectNova

    Any update on this beast???

    The performance would sure be something. I think it would suffer torque steer with all that power through the front wheels...... I want a 4G63T in my mirage!

    It would be so much fun coming up to someone at the lights in a big V8 and smashing them with a sleeper mirage…..


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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2013 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 43.6 mpg (US) ... 18.5 km/L ... 5.4 L/100 km ... 52.4 mpg (Imp)


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