From Mirage (hatch 2019) to Mirage (2021 G4 sedan)

Dirk - I will throw my $0.02 in from having been there and worked in design directly with Toyota. My perspective is from the TMC (Toyota Motor Company) perspective. The Japanese leadership are, again in my experience, just as humble as you might imagine could ever be possible from a corporate leadership perspective. For real, they ONLY want to do what is right and best for the customer. They beat that into the engineers (especially the Camry engineers), and I appreciated working for such leadership. As hard and time consuming as it was, I appreciated it. It's the only company I have regretted leaving (because wife).

However, when things get handed over to the American side (sales - TMMNA), things are more bean counter focused there. And the bean counters will take advantage, and I believe that's where the term you mentioned, the Toyota tax stems from. So ... I say this with a suggestion to you that while I do NOT think you are wrong, keep in the back of your mind, there are a crapload of employees who all they want to do is conceive, design, develop and manufacture the best possible version of a vehicle for their customers. And American bean counters unfortunately get involved in the middle of a transaction and take advantage of the fact that the development group is so very effective. The bean counters make all their bar charts on their pretty powerpoint presentations and present to each other. Then those American fat cats head out to the golf courses, smoke their cigars, drink whiskey and pat each other on the back and congratulate each other on just how brilliant they are. When all they really have done is decide how high they can push margins and get away with it (keep sales numbers up).

Sorry, went off on one of Newman's rants...

I've been a fan of EG civics from the 90's, similar to what you were describing. I was looking for one in decent shape but like you said they're all rusted out or have horrendous ricer mods on them. Every now and then I see a decent one pop up (stock or modded) but it gets sold in a week and it's always at a time I'm not looking for a car.

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Originally Posted by Yeti

I've been a fan of EG civics from the 90's, similar to what you were describing. I was looking for one in decent shape but like you said they're all rusted out or have horrendous ricer mods on them. Every now and then I see a decent one pop up (stock or modded) but it gets sold in a week and it's always at a time I'm not looking for a car.

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Yeah, I regret not buying one back in the day. I was a working college student at that time, and to be honest I could have made the payments. But I would have had to get full coverage insurance too. And at that age it would have been high. If I had taken that chance, it would have been all I could have afforded to pay for the car and insurance, and nothing left over. I preferred to have a safety buffer. And besides I had a good car at that time ... a 1984 Celica GT (5 speed, RWD). And it was paid off!

The Celica is defiantly good though, maybe one day we can a find non-crusty old civic :D

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And my experience with this and a few others is, a 90's economy car is the Pinnacle of an efficient, not overdone car that is pleasant enough to drive that those who complain are very, very particular people.

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But the Mirage has better amenities and is much safer than a 90's econobox!

True! That's one of the reasons why I love it!

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Originally Posted by btoneone

-Vs a 1993 Nissan Sentra. Owned one many years ago. The comparison reviewers make on power, noise, and "general feel" of a Mirage being similar to a 90's economy car is spot on. And my experience with this and a few others is, a 90's economy car is the Pinnacle of an efficient, not overdone car that is pleasant enough to drive that those who complain are very, very particular people.

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Heh, I'm scrolling through this site as I once again contemplate buying a Mirage, and this caught my attention. I owned a 1993 Sentra SE 5-speed manual from 1997-2002. Apart from the muffler constantly rusting out, it was a great little car and I'd love to have a modern version. I've wondered if a base Versa with a 5-speed manual would be the best analogue, but perhaps a Mirage or a G4 would do just as well. :-)

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Originally Posted by mainertodd

but perhaps a Mirage or a G4 would do just as well. :-)

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Best I can compare is (and I have never driven a Versa, just heard too many negative remarks from mechanics about newer Nissans) the following for the 1993 Sentra 1.6 5-speed vs the 2021 Mirage G4 1.2 5-speed:
1) 1,000-3,000rpm range, Mirage feels much more powerful / better torque. Easier starts on a hill or towing (never more than 1,000lb with either). Must be combination of the long stroke and newer VVT? The old Sentra had a spring gismo on the intake cam sprocket but no brains to go with it...
2) 3,000+ rpm, as I recall the Sentra power was considerably more than the Mirage. Which matches up with the specs...
3) Gearing: Sentra was geared short, Mirage a little shorter than that. This plus point number 1 means I almost never have reason to downshift for hills at-speed, that I would have to downshift every time in the Sentra.
4) Braking, Handling: I've never driven a sports car but I think both are plenty good enough (would need some really sticky tires for the brakes on either to not be enough?). Neither handled great, but, the Sentra probably would win there by a small margin with power steering, and a little broader margin after I removed power steering from the Sentra.
5) Fuel economy: Mirage wins every time. Hypermile-inspired driving in the 40-50mph range (not ideal speed but suitable for unchanged routes I drove in the Sentra and drive today in the Mirage), Sentra could eek out 43mpg, Mirage easily gets 53mpg. 80mph interstate A/C on full blast, Sentra would see 33ish mpg, Mirage is 38ish mpg.
6) Towing: have been known to put nearly 1,000lb behind either a time or two, and 500lb more often. I would put them in similar category. Mirage gearing and torque makes a little easier starts in 1st, but Sentra added HP could theoretically do more if you don't care how hard you make it work. Mirage mileage doesn't suffer nearly as bad as best I can estimate, but I don't have the same trailer I had then, so maybe not the best comparison...
7) Clutch pedal: Good bit lighter on the Mirage as best I recall to compare. I think you could almost use a motorcycle clutch lever with the Mirage... Definitely can press it by hand with no struggle. Sentra wasn't bad but almost too much to push by hand. (and yes I've pushed both clutches by hand... In both cases trying to see how the clutch cable adjustment "felt" in terms of slack and whether I was hitting the floor or end of the clutch arm travel first).
8) Comfort: I would rate both very similar. Nothing spectacular, but, I'm not picky and found both to be more than sufficient in terms of seats, visors, noise, etc.


Short version, I would say same category but Sentra a little more "fun to drive" Mirage a little more "easy to drive".


I did end up putting the VW beetle rear springs (whichever had the softest rate...) under the G4, they fit just like the hatch (and like to top out here too...). Probably dangerous and ill-advised, but I added a pair of lowering clamps to each side (unloaded length of spring is still a little longer than the original springs, not going to drop a spring!) and now it is just about right, but, of course now the rear shocks don't match the spring rate so it's a tad bouncy. I mention all that to say, the Sentra would squat under similar weight and had rear strut suspension so a little more difficult to swap springs on that one!

Thanks for your insight on the Sentra, I'm always curious as to how older econoboxes compare with the mirage. :)