Testing OEM block heater: how hot after how much time plugged in?

https://mirageforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1592569825

Mirage #2, The Even Fancier Metro, came with the OEM cartridge style block heater.

I'll have to confirm this, but I think it's a 400 watt unit. (EDIT: confirmed below by klroger - it's 400w.)

I was curious how fast it warmed things up, so plugged it in and checked the coolant temp every 10 minutes (via a ScanGauge).

Elapsed time (minutes)	Coolant temp (F / C)	Temp change (F) from previous
0	40 / 4 (ambient, cold soak)	0
10	42 / 6	2
20	49 / 9	7
30	57 / 14	8
40	62 / 17	5
50	67 / 19	5
60	71 / 22	4
70	75 / 24	4
80	78 / 26	3
90	80 / 27	2
100	82 / 28	2
100.5*	100 / 38	18

* That last reading was after starting the engine and letting it idle for 30 seconds. I figured the water jacket / block wouldn't be heated uniformly by the block heater, so circulating the coolant past the temp sensor would be a good idea to get a final reading. (I don't think that 30 seconds of idling actually added 18 degrees F worth of heat to the coolant).

It looks like around the hour-and-a-half mark the amount of heat being added has slowed down a lot. And at some point it's going to reach equilibrium, losing heat as fast as it's added. Though we weren't quite there yet.

Edit... graph!

Attachment 19904

That's great, thanks for taking the time to do this. I can verify it is in fact 400 watts as I have a "kill-o-watt" meter that plugs into the wall outlet & I had my block heater plugged into it. It does show 400 watts on the meter...

Thanks, klroger !

Out of curiosity, how long do you usually plug in?

I actually bought a 1000w external tank style coolant heater last spring, but haven't decided if I'll install it yet. I may use it in my Miata (yes, for summer usage). That car is very cold-blooded - takes forever to warm up, even with a 90% grille block.

I can tell you that the ~800w tank style unit I had in my Firefly was fantastic. 30 minutes plug-in time was enough.

So I have looked at your numbers a couple different times the past two days, & I am trying to come away with something from it all.

I tend to put the extension cord leading to my Mirage engine block heater on a simple outlet timer.

It seems like 1.5 hours may be sufficient time for an engine block heater to kick in prior to starting your Mirage in the morning. At some point (2+ hours) you are probably just wasting electricity.

Is that the conclusion, you reached? Where you searching for a conclusion? Obviously, a much colder day may require a bit more time, too!

Yeah, that's basically what I was looking for: at what point do the diminishing returns seem to kick in?

I don't generally use a timer because I don't drive on a fixed schedule. But I do have a remote control plug thinger, so I can leave the car plugged in and activate it from inside when I want to start pre-heating.

Great info Darin!

The 400W block heater is nice and easy to install. But, those 800W or 1000W heaters are SO much nicer from my experience. Of course they are harder to install. I had to drain and refill my coolant.

DIY: Install a 1000W circulating block heater & accessories / goodies

My coolant temp in the mornings is always at least +12c regardless of the weather! I've never used the block heater ;)
If I did it'd probably be pulled out of the block with an extension cord dragging down the road.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

Thanks, klroger !

Out of curiosity, how long do you usually plug in?

---

I have mine on a timer set for 2 hrs. It may be excessive, but we do have some -35C nights. (I actually saw -40 once. Once was enough:eek:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fummins

My coolant temp in the mornings is always at least +12c regardless of the weather! I've never used the block heater ;)
If I did it'd probably be pulled out of the block with an extension cord dragging down the road.

---

I place a large object like a trash can next to my driver's door whenever I plug in. Otherwise, I would surely do the same!!!!!!

I wonder how his temperature was +4C for his experiment if your temperature is at least +12C regardless of the weather?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mark

I place a large object like a trash can next to my driver's door whenever I plug in. Otherwise, I would surely do the same!!!!!!

I wonder how his temperature was +4C for his experiment if your temperature is at least +12C regardless of the weather?

---

Trash can is a good idea.

I have an insulated and heated garage. First thing I did when I moved to my house was have a reznor furnace installed in the garage. Well worth the money, as long we don't forget to close the garage door when we go to work when it's -30c again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fummins

Trash can is a good idea.

I have an insulated and heated garage. First thing I did when I moved to my house was have a reznor furnace installed in the garage. Well worth the money, as long we don't forget to close the garage door when we go to work when it's -30c again.

---

A group of African children performed at our city auditorium a few years ago. Some of them were interviewed during the performance. They were amazed that Americans actual built buildings for their vehicles. If you are coming from a large family living in a one or two room hut, a garage for your car may seem excessive. Then again, not owning a car may account for the lack of garages there, too.

I can't get both of my vehicles in my two car garage, because I have to much other junk. Even with a large storage shed, I can't fit everything in. It's my Mirage that gets left out the most!

A heated garage is nice to have. In our area, outdoor wood burning boilers are somewhat common. Some will run the heated water lines in their garage floor, & it does a great job of heating their house/garage.

I have never had an engine block heater on a vehicle before my Mirage. It wasn't very expensive & easy to add. I don't use mine that much, but you do notice a difference when it is used on those extremely cold days.

My car barely fits. My garage is small, 20wx21 deep. The wife parks her sorento on one side and I have my teryx sideways along the front wall on the other side and my car barely fits in. Hopefully lumber prices start to come down so I can build a shed next year to get more junk out of the elements! My old rzr, lawn mowers, and kids bikes are out in the snow.

I've seen a few shops and garages with infloor heating. They were nice, no standing water on the floors, and no fan noise but you gotta be damn careful if drilling holes in the floor!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fummins

My car barely fits. My garage is small, 20wx21 deep. The wife parks her sorento on one side and I have my teryx sideways along the front wall on the other side and my car barely fits in. Hopefully lumber prices start to come down so I can build a shed next year to get more junk out of the elements! My old rzr, lawn mowers, and kids bikes are out in the snow.

I've seen a few shops and garages with infloor heating. They were nice, no standing water on the floors, and no fan noise but you gotta be damn careful if drilling holes in the floor!

---

A person can never have enough storage space, & whatever you have will be filled up. I already have a 12' x 17' storage shed, & I still can't find room for my Mirage.

Old 4WD compact tractor, 3 point hitch rototiller, 3 point hitch mower for trails, riding lawnmower, couple push mowers, walk behind rototiller, 2 Honda ATVs, Kawasaki Mule, multiple chainsaws, gas power log splitter, couple kayaks, & small square back canoe hanging from the rafters, whatever else I may store in a garage (like a load of wood pellet bags or whatever). I could probably sell my older 1985 Honda ATV, but it's more valuable to me than what I would get for it. I did sell my motorcycle a couple years ago. That's a start! I pretty much use everything I have. I have lots of old stuff bought used, & I take care of it best I can. An upgrade on an ATV this summer for me was buying a 1996 Honda 300 4x4, & those haven't been sold since 2000.

I splurged when I bought a new Mirage in 2017! :)

A larger garage or more storage would make room for a larger boat or add a camper to everything, but I don't need more stuff! :)

Hope lumber prices come down & you get that storage shed.

What was this thread about?

I forget, uhh hyundai veloster N ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fummins

Trash can is a good idea.

I have an insulated and heated garage. First thing I did when I moved to my house was have a reznor furnace installed in the garage. Well worth the money, as long we don't forget to close the garage door when we go to work when it's -30c again.

---

Shortly after moving in I discovered my garage is insulated under the fireproof stucco interior. That's great as I can safely tig/mig/oxy weld. Add a gas heater and insulate the roll up door and I have the start of a great shop. Unfortunately my health concerns have halted things in their tracks. I was going to A) try to turbocharge my 2014 Mirage (named Zero after the Japanese WWII fighter) AND B) build myself a turbo Zenair HD 650. Plus park Mirage 1 indoors.

Anyhow, I digress and thanks,

Good thing for auto save. I wrote my blurb at lunch, wandered away w/o hitting Post!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wallythacker

Shortly after moving in I discovered my garage is insulated under the fireproof stucco interior. That's great as I can safely tig/mig/oxy weld. Add a gas heater and insulate the roll up door and I have the start of a great shop. Unfortunately my health concerns have halted things in their tracks. I was going to A) try to turbocharge my 2014 Mirage (named Zero after the Japanese WWII fighter) AND B) build myself a turbo Zenair HD 650. Plus park Mirage 1 indoors.

Anyhow, I digress and thanks,

Good thing for auto save. I wrote my blurb at lunch, wandered away w/o hitting Post!

---

That sucks, Sorry to hear things aren't going as planned. Here's hoping things turn around for you!

I'm happy with these testing numbers. My block heater turns on 2 hours before I head to work.

Has anybody tested this in -20 Temps?

Where the hell have you been lately?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nickels

I'm happy with these testing numbers. My block heater turns on 2 hours before I head to work.

Has anybody tested this in -20 Temps?

---

2 hours appears to be a good time, especially if it's really cold.

I would like to see the same test done @ -20 temps, too. Not done in Fummins' heated garage, however! :)

Nice to see a post from you again!

Not yet!

I forget: shouldn't the change in temperature be the same, regardless of starting point? EG: it should add ~60F after ~100 minutes?

Someone with some edumacation about thermal issues, correct me if I'm wrong.

For comparison purposes has anyone ever made a chart of how long the engine takes to warm up to certain coolant temperatures via idling?

No but anecdotally, driving my Mirage going on 8 years now, and owning no other car, I got a pretty good idea.

*Even in winter time, I would say within 5 minutes or less, that cold engine light is off. Not that long after getting out of town on my way home commuting every day. That light is off. And in the hot weather obviously it's off much sooner. I don't know the numbers for viscosity of all the liquids running the engine.

So 3-5 minutes engine 3 pot is hot, even if the rest of the car is mostly frozen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mohammad

For comparison purposes has anyone ever made a chart of how long the engine takes to warm up to certain coolant temperatures via idling?

---

Never tried that.

Do you have a Scangauge?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

Never tried that.

Do you have a Scangauge?

---

I dont no, I have considered getting one. But im not overly concerned about my fuel economy. Maybe one day in the future if I try doing eco-mods and/or start driving a lot more ill consider buying one.

OK.

I am unwilling to idle my car to answer this question. :D

This might be a stupid question, but a block heater... just makes it easier to start your Mirage in the middle of the winter?

Never had one before. Anyways not related to this thread, however I had my driver's door key go unworkable this week. Had to go into my Mirage from the passenger side for 2 days.

So then I bought Jig-A-Loo graphite spray, and success, my Mirage's lock is good as new again. Used the same spray on my side door at home, and that is now working again like new. Yea, I couldn't turn my wrist left to lock my driver's door - left to lock, right to unlock

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dspace9

This might be a stupid question, but a block heater... just makes it easier to start your Mirage in the middle of the winter?

---

It also gives you heat in the car faster and saves you gas as the car uses extra gas to warm up and to power the electric element in the cabin heater and less gas is wasted heating up coolant. These are the main reasons that shorter drives experience much worse fuel economy than longer ones.

Power doorlock upgrade kits are like $50 on Amazon. No need for those peasant mechanical keys.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

Never tried that.

Do you have a Scangauge?

---

I've got one. What's the test you guys want to run? I also have the Veespeak bluetooth OBD module and can compare all three, SG, Vpesk and Mirage lights.

I've decided I want to try minimizing cold engine wear. It all comes back to heating the oil as the best thing you can do. With that in mind I wonder how well a dipstick heater would work? I get it's only 90 watts, so on the low end, but in terms of wear the oil is the best thing to heat in the winter. The dipstick would only be about 30-40mm down into oil. Is that really far enough to move enough heat to the oil? The heater is a Katz. My cost $85. Has anyone here ever used a dipstick style heater?

Or, would it be better to go with the silicone stick on pads. Amazon has this https://www.amazon.com/KENUOS-Thermo...28&sr=8-5&th=1 which seems like a good deal for $30. I can do both my cars or the oil and the transmission. Is there any value at all in heating a manual transmission? Maybe at -60F but even then.

I think 150w directly into the oil is probably more effective than 400w into a fairly small water jacket that's not moving. The blurb does say it takes 15 minutes to bring the oil to 194F.

Well, I ordered the $30 silicone stick ons. Where and when I'll have a change to really clean the oil pan is the next question. I suppose I could drag out my ramps.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wallythacker

I've got one. What's the test you guys want to run?

---

I think mohammad was interested in seeing a graph of coolant temp vs. time, while idling after a cold start.

Quote:

---

I've decided I want to try minimizing cold engine wear. It all comes back to heating the oil as the best thing you can do. ... in terms of wear the oil is the best thing to heat in the winter.

---

Do what my gramps did with the farm tractor: drain the oil when you park at the end of the day and bring it inside the house! Heat it on the stove the next morning. :)

I'll be curious to see how your stick-on oil pan heater works. I'd stick one on the transmission too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

I think mohammad was interested in seeing a graph of coolant temp vs. time, while idling after a cold start.



Do what my gramps did with the farm tractor: drain the oil when you park at the end of the day and bring it inside the house! Heat it on the stove the next morning. :)

I'll be curious to see how your stick-on oil pan heater works. I'd stick one on the transmission too.

---

I might try just that. I have a that I have to get into the shop this morning. It's -33C(-27F-Feels like -42F) right now and the car isn't plugged in. It's been sitting outside since last week(waiting for a rear wheel bearing to come in).

I have a feeling the green cold engine light is still gonna be on after 5 mins. Cold is a very relative term.

Scan guage II on my truck shows minimal temp increase while idling in cold weather. Truck only gets to proper operating temp when you start driving it. With a block heater, same thing, but gets to proper operating temp faster. I paid attention to those numbers last winter, but I don't remember exact details now. My conclusion was: don't bother idling at all (unless windows are still frosty)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fummins

I might try just that. I have a that I have to get into the shop this morning. It's -33C(-27F-Feels like -42F) right now and the car isn't plugged in. It's been sitting outside since last week(waiting for a rear wheel bearing to come in).

I have a feeling the green cold engine light is still gonna be on after 5 mins. Cold is a very relative term.

---

It's like the banana belt here to compare. About +3C, maybe more. Don't think I'll try the idling test. I do enough cold weather short trip stuff as is. I am curious how much faster the Temp light will go out with 3l of oil @194F. Much faster I bet than 4l of coolant that's not uniformly heated.

I remember as a kid my grandad heating kerosene! on the wood stove to make it more flammable, I guess.