Timing chain loose w/o any error lights? Dealership or Local Repair?

[Faru]

How could anyone look at the timing chain in a Mirage to determine its tension? I think the only way you can see any part of it is by looking through the oil filler cap.

Timing chain related failures are unusual in these cars. I can't remember anyone here who's had one...and we have plenty of people here with well over 100K miles on their car. Not saying it's impossible...but unlikely.

My brother took the entire valve cover off (looked at head gasket & had gotten a new one in case that was the issue somehow). I am just going off of what my brother said, but I do trust his knowledge and skill, not that he's a licensed mechanic or anything, but it's the best I got until going to one. According to him, timing chains aren't supposed to be as loose as mine was- they usually have a little bit of a give so they don't feel like they're glued in place. But mine had probably twice the give it should, apparently. It was very easy to just knock it side-to-side against the walls of the channel thing it sat in, and that side-to-side knocking sounded exactly like the sound I'd been hearing, just a bit slower. I didn't a video or anything, unfortunately.
We couldn't see all of the chain, so something else might be wrong with the chain itself, or it's not taught enough so the tensioner needs to be adjusted. He didn't think a tooth of the gears had come off yet because my oil is fine (no metal shavings from it eating something etc.)

Uhhh...if you call a shop and "tell them what the issue is", you are either going to get brushed off or you will pay for them to tear your car apart looking for the problem you told them to go after. I have a good dealer, so I would have no concern dropping my car off to them and paying for an hour to diagnose something. If you don't trust your dealer, take it to an independent shop.

The only other similar noise I've heard of is a heat shield, but that comes from the bottom of the car and mine does clearly sound like it's coming from under the hood somewhere, specifically by the motor, so that's why the timing chain makes sense to me. I don't have a warranty or anything, so I'm already charging any of these repairs to a credit card, and the dealership if charging $63 for every half-hour of diagnosis... so I really don't want them to waste my time "inventing" issues I'm not concerned with right now.. so sure, even if it isn't the timing chain, it's gotta be something in that area so they might as well look, I figure. Or just to ease my anxiety and make 100% sure my brother was mistaken if he was indeed mistaken. Which I hope makes sense.
I'm somewhat new to the area I currently live in so I don't know what independent shops I can trust to not screw me over, much less be able to fix my car because a bunch of it needs to be handled or bought directly from Mitsubishi (hence the pep boys not wanting to touch my car, apparently. And my brother having to order a new head gasket and bolts directly from mitsubishi). So at this point I just want to make sure my dealership doesn't screw me over...

I have since called them back and was able to double check that they marked "timing chain" down in the notes for my appointment. I'm already expecting this to be around $1,000 to repair at the cheapest because even they wouldn't give me a quote.. so, fck it, might as well just double check.

[Faru]

Faru - I guess I can see this both ways. There was an instance in my past where I took (in this case it was my Dodge Ram, when it had warranty coverage) to a dealer. But before I did, I diagnosed that the lift pump (a fuel pump), would experience large instances in time where it would just NOT pump (and the truck would stall). I put a fuel pressure gauge on the fuel line just post lift pump and duct taped the gauge to my windshield, and I watched the pressure. This lift pump problem was / is a known issue.

I knew up front the stealership was going to harass me about, "we have to diagnose, and that's $90, but that's refunded if it is a warranted repair." And, "we have to scan your codes and blah blah blah." But I also knew, the failed lift pump produced no codes, as well as there was an ECU flash they did automatically to unsuspecting customers, that I didn't want done ... because that flash dumbed down various gauges (long story).

So before I went, I backed the OBD connector out of its mount and pushed it up behind the dash into a rat's nest of wiring. I left the gauge taped to the windshield (outside) take it to the dealer, roll into the service bay, "How can we help you sir?" I say, the lift pump has failed, please replace it.

And off to the races they go with their crap. I said to the guy again, "the lift pump has failed, please replace it." And added context, "The failed lift pump can be verified by the gauge taped to the windshield." The service writer says, well, we have still have to check the codes and diagnose, it'll be $90 to diagnose at minimum, unless it's covered. I just said blankly again, "the lift pump has failed, please replace it." He repeated the, "we'll have to scan the codes."

I held the keys out and said, "good luck with that." He looked perplexed and I left. A different service guy called me a couple hours later and said, your new lift pump is in and your truck is ready. I asked them how much, he said, no charge, it's covered under warranty.

I went back and walked up to the original service writer. He looked totally miffed, handed me my keys and service document and didn't say a word. Neither did I. I still wonder how long they spent trying to find that connector. When I got home, it took me about 30 minutes to find it myself, and I knew where I had pushed it! But got it and snapped it back in it's mount. There was no write up on the receipt about having scanned the codes or diagnosis. Just something like, "replaced failed lift pump."

The point is, I was 100% certain I had identified the problem, and went prepared.

You'll have to splain to us how your brother diagnosed this. I don't "know" the structure of the engine in the area of the timing belt, but I would imagine there's a cover. But from memory (of other cars), that cover is not a simple affair to remove.

And lastly, regardless of what the problem is, timing chain or other, if you are not the original owner and thusly have no warranty coverage (which I think is the case), then my recommendation is to use a private mechanic. As every OEM dealership in the U.S. sucks be stanky crust-covered ass. They're either really nice to their customers, and do shi11y work, or they're a-holes and do shi11y work.

Furthermore, I have had really good luck asking for recommendations for fair priced, quality autowork on facebutt. Stuck to the recommendations and do now have one particular shop that does really good work on the stuff that I don't want to do, and he does it at fair costs. Smart guy too, so glad I found the guy.

That story is very insightful, I appreciate it. I wish I could now be as confident as you were about your issue, because as I predicted people would - everyone is telling me I'm wrong and that it cant be the issue. But everyone is also failing to provide logical alternatives, most importantly my dealership. Who I KNOW wants to waste my time and over charge me.
As I said in my other post - I'm new to the area I currently live in so I don't know any independent mechanics, much less one that not going to try and screw me over and take advantage of me not knowing absolutely everything about my car as if I built it like I built my own computer. I also explained in my other reply to top_fuel sort of how my brother and I diagnosed this. He's been in and out of many of his own cars and friends cars, he just hasn't had formal training like a mechanic might.

To me, as someone in IT, the comparison would be like trusting someone who spent about 4 years working on computers but never graduated to diagnose a computer issue and possibly be able to fix it for free before going to an actual repair shop. Sure they might be wrong, but they might be right and might save me time and money- both of which I'm kinda low on these days, so I'm numbing myself and my wallet (cuz my wallets gonna hurt) and I'm taking the gamble... On the off chance my brother is right he might save me a couple hundred from the dealership techs digging around my car and them trying to make sure the timing chain is like the last thing they touch. I hate it, but i'll still pay for it because my alternative is going to a potentiality shady mechanic and being overcharged on top of them not being able to fix it and telling me I have to go to a dealership anyway, apparently.

[mohammad]

on a more serious note if this repair is going to cost you "a thousand dollars" a whole engine on car-part.com with 58k miles is 400usd. its under 1000 USD for me to get it put in locally. If an engine works out to be cheaper than all the diagnostic garbage and repair for your car maybe just buy the engine?

[Fummins]

Yikes. Did I miss the part where the dealer denied warranty? (Reading is hard)
Regardless, a sloppy timing chain isn’t a problem I have seen in one of these engines. We have Mirages with close to 500,000km on the original engine…I’ve never had a need to open up an engine except to dissect the one in my car with 284,000km that spun a rod bearing. So a sloppy timing is extremely unlikely. But it could happen. Just remember, if it’s not broke fix it until it is.

[klroger]

everyone is telling me I'm wrong and that it cant be the issue. But everyone is also failing to provide logical alternatives,.

I gave you a couple alternatives earlier, but I guess you're brother is smarter more way then me, so ...

[CROSSBOLT]

Let your brother fix it....

[AtomicPunk]

I dunno: At 72k you're just good and broken-in on these engines, provided proper maintenance. But, you're the 2nd owner, so maybe it's on its first oil change. Can't recall anyone else having this issue, but yours might be the unicorn. Please let us know the outcome regardless of what they find.

[Dirk Diggler]

on a more serious note if this repair is going to cost you "a thousand dollars" a whole engine on car-part.com with 58k miles is 400usd. its under 1000 USD for me to get it put in locally. If an engine works out to be cheaper than all the diagnostic garbage and repair for your car maybe just buy the engine?

He needs to make sure he can find a decent shop to drop in the used engine too. The closed down Mitsubishi dealer by me couldn't even handle this apparently for my wife's 2017 G4, causing us a lot of issues thru the few years we owned it lol.

[Pimp_Daddy_Patty]

Even on a good day, the cost to swap in a used engine will probably be over $1000 in labor.

[Fummins]

I re-read this thread finally.
As mentioned already, timing chain and tensioner failures are basically non-existent in these cars. But anything can fail and there's a first for everything.

I wouldn't get too defensive about everybody doubting you and your brother's troubleshooting abilities. Most common problems are posted on this forum. You won't find a timing chain thread here.

I'd get a second opinion before tearing the engine apart. Paying a whooping $63 to have a second set of eyes and ears by someone that would hopefully have more experience is worth it in my opinion.

If you do indeed have an effered timing chain I'd really consider just replacing the engine with a used, low mileage one. After you buy head bolts, timing chain, tensioner, guides, gaskets, and spend all that time...you probably could have just replaced the engine. Sometimes it's quicker and more cost-effective to replace something than try to repair it.

But speculating the cause of a noise that you've never shared is pointless. You could have anything from a floppy air cleaner(already suggested and probably the most common source of noises) to a loose belt.

And...if your chain is so sloppy it's causing noise there's a good chance it would have died already because these are interference engines.

The only actual engine noises I hear from these cars is injector tick and bottom end knocking.
Does your engine sound like this https://youtube.com/shorts/Io9r5PRbIFw?feature=share
or this https://youtube.com/shorts/B_DavJ1ZLfY?feature=share