Timing chain loose w/o any error lights? Dealership or Local Repair?

[Dirk Diggler]

I re-read this thread finally.
As mentioned already, timing chain and tensioner failures are basically non-existent in these cars. But anything can fail and there's a first for everything.

I wouldn't get too defensive about everybody doubting you and your brother's troubleshooting abilities. Most common problems are posted on this forum. You won't find a timing chain thread here.

I'd get a second opinion before tearing the engine apart. Paying a whooping $63 to have a second set of eyes and ears by someone that would hopefully have more experience is worth it in my opinion.

If you do indeed have an effered timing chain I'd really consider just replacing the engine with a used, low mileage one. After you buy head bolts, timing chain, tensioner, guides, gaskets, and spend all that time...you probably could have just replaced the engine. Sometimes it's quicker and more cost-effective to replace something than try to repair it.

But speculating the cause of a noise that you've never shared is pointless. You could have anything from a floppy air cleaner(already suggested and probably the most common source of noises) to a loose belt.

And...if your chain is so sloppy it's causing noise there's a good chance it would have died already because these are interference engines.

The only actual engine noises I hear from these cars is injector tick and bottom end knocking.
Does your engine sound like this https://youtube.com/shorts/Io9r5PRbIFw?feature=share
or this https://youtube.com/shorts/B_DavJ1ZLfY?feature=share

Some folks just wanna hear what they wanna hear, no matter how much you try and help. You've been a f#cking Saint on here, as far as I'm concerned, diagnosing issues over the years for complete strangers!

You're like the positive stereotype of Canadians, being cool and genuine lol. Cheers to you brother!

[Fummins]

Some folks just wanna hear what they wanna hear, no matter how much you try and help. You've been a f#cking Saint on here, as far as I'm concerned, diagnosing issues over the years for complete strangers!

You're like the positive stereotype of Canadians, being cool and genuine lol. Cheers to you brother!

I just post what I see. I hate seeing people throw money in the trash though I do enough of that myself.

I got a call the other day from a location 3hrs away about a problem with a Nissan. It was a pretty bad case of the telephone game. First the driver "couldn't get the key into the ignition".

I suggested trying the spare key cause they are known to wear out.

Then it turned into "both keys go into the ignition but won't turn".

Okay, I tell them to wiggle the steering wheel it's probably locked and jammed up.

Their hopple head driver was trying to make a problem out of nothing and was insistant that this was an electrical problem...I argued with the store manager and explained that thee only 2 reasons the key will not turn is because the steering wheel is jammed(locked) and you need to turn the wheel one way or the other to free it(this happens at least once every few months over here) or the ignition tumbler itself magically failed out of the blue.
They are insistent that the wheel isn't jammed, they tried wiggling it...Though it's tight...

They tell me the immobilizer light is one so it's probably an imobilizer issue. They were calling the Nissan dealer as well and getting told to unhook the battery....The imobilizer light comes on then goes out once you turn the key to the run position! It's been like that from new. This is similar to the green temp light on the Mirages "suddenly appearing". Driver just never noticed it before and is trying to make a problem out of nothing.

I was adamant that their problem was what I told them in the first place. And they were adamant that the imobilizer light never used to come on and the thing had an electrical problem.... After phone call number 5 I walked them through one last time how to unlock the steering wheel lock like they were 5 years old. The phone went silent, "oh, I'm supposed to turn the wheel and hold then turn the key?". Got a call back that they canceled the tow truck and appointment at the dealership....They had the van for 5 years now. Steering wheel locks have been around since the 70's.
Thankfully the Mirages don't have one for some reason.

The moral of the story isn't that I was right and they were wrong. They had a problem and started jumping to conclusions. The problem wasn't a problem and they were just about to waste time and money for nothing.

[foama]

@ Fummins, that could have been my own words!

About the timing chain. This would be the first chain on a Mirage needing repair as far as I know. I would certainly get a qualified second opinion.





Here is a true and unfortunate story that ended a few days ago:
My Son-in Law is an unemployed auto mechanic with all left thumbs on his hands instead of fingers. He and his family are financially poor, but definitely need a car. I don't have much money myself, but wanted to help. So I bought an old car, put it in my garage and thoroughly repaired it. A lot was replaced, a few holes properly closed, etc. I drove it myself for a few weeks to be sure it was all good, and put it through mandatory safety inspection. All that cost me more than half a months salary.
Later the car was given to my son in law, and he quickly started to see everything that in his opinion was wrong with it. He started to "fix" it. Occaisionally it made a certain mysterious noise when driving over a particular bump, a noise most folks would certainly not notice. So he put new shocks in the front, wheel bearings, universal joints, and so on, but that occaisional and almost inaudible "thump" stayed that way.
Because of that he recently swapped the engine mounts, and complained how much the many spare parts cost! All of the stuff he replaced was still fine in my opinion. In the end he replaced one engine mount a second time, and tore off the bolt that holds it to the front axle. That torn off bolt goes through the hollow axle and can not be accesssed or replaced without swapping the entire axle-body. Too expensive for him!
In the end he fixed all what was not broken, and the car ended in the junk yard because of that. I told him not to fix things broke, but he insists all was broken from day one...

[Dirk Diggler]

@ Fummins, that could have been my own words!

About the timing chain. This would be the first chain on a Mirage needing repair as far as I know. I would certainly get a qualified second opinion.





Here is a true and unfortunate story that ended a few days ago:
My Son-in Law is an unemployed auto mechanic with all left thumbs on his hands instead of fingers. He and his family are financially poor, but definitely need a car. I don't have much money myself, but wanted to help. So I bought an old car, put it in my garage and thoroughly repaired it. A lot was replaced, a few holes properly closed, etc. I drove it myself for a few weeks to be sure it was all good, and put it through mandatory safety inspection. All that cost me more than half a months salary.
Later the car was given to my son in law, and he quickly started to see everything that in his opinion was wrong with it. He started to "fix" it. Occaisionally it made a certain mysterious noise when driving over a particular bump, a noise most folks would certainly not notice. So he put new shocks in the front, wheel bearings, universal joints, and so on, but that occaisional and almost inaudible "thump" stayed that way.
Because of that he recently swapped the engine mounts, and complained how much the many spare parts cost! All of the stuff he replaced was still fine in my opinion. In the end he replaced one engine mount a second time, and tore off the bolt that holds it to the front axle. That torn off bolt goes through the hollow axle and can not be accesssed or replaced without swapping the entire axle-body. Too expensive for him!
In the end he fixed all what was not broken, and the car ended in the junk yard because of that. I told him not to fix things broke, but he insists all was broken from day one...

Your son-in-law could use some lessons in gratitude. He needs to apologize for that $hitty attitude. I'd never disrespect my father like that. Your son-in-law must be French or worse, from Luxembourg. That last sentence was a joke but the first three were not.

[foama]

Unfortunately you are right, and I feel increasingly sorry for my daughter. Period.

[7milesout]

foama - That's a tough situation. I actually feel some empathy for you, because you're stuck. What can you do? Not much if anything. You already did a really good thing and got it all kind of crapped on. I have to believe there are a lot more out there like your son-in-law, more than we might imagine. My dad passed about 1.5 years ago. I have his 2003 GMC pickup. To be honest, I think it is lower quality than my 2000 Dodge Ram, and don't get why Dodge trucks get such a bad rap. But it's an easier daily driver than my Ram, in that it's like a powerful Ford Ranger, and my Ram is like a Sherman Tank. The GMC is small, easy to handle and park, yet guzzles gas like nobody's bidness. Anywho - My dad would hear various noises with said truck. And if it weren't costly to have things fixed, he would have had this truck in the shop weekly for "noises."

Now I have the truck, and it makes the noises he mentioned. But, in my case, I don't give a fat rip. Those noises bother me very little.

Note a couple important things. I can tell when a noise is a noise that must be dealt with, and when it is just an old car noise. I mean, usually. I'm not perfect of course. But I have a tendency to let things "manifest" so that they are more easily identifiable.

I guess it also doesn't matter as much to me because if one of my cars "blows up," I got a couple others to fill in. Here's a for instance. Right now, on his 2003 GMC, there is a squeal / squeak from a pulley under the hood. It's just annoying. But yeah, something is failing (a bearing of course, psh like I care). I thought it was an idler, I replaced said idler because it was cheeeeep to do so. But that wasn't the source of the noise (which then annoyed me to spend $15 and not fix the problem). So I spent some time trying to identify the source. I sprayed a bit of water around at the pulleys and it seems like it is the power steering pulley. I could care less if the sumbich flys off. I'll replace it once it does. However, I sprayed some "no fling" chain lube on it (because what do I care if it makes it worse, but I doubt it would). But spraying chain lube on the bearing area made no difference. So, I may go spray some chain lube on the others to see if a) a different pulley is the source, and b) if I can reduce the noise. But I'm not fixing shi1 until it gets worse or something breaks. If it breaks I'll limp it or drag it home and fix it. It's very doubtful like something breaking there would cost any more money once broken, than fixing it now. And now, I'm not certain Ed Zachery what it is. I'm a big believer to not fix it if it ain't broke.

P.S. I complain about it guzzling gas because, well mostly because I like to complain. I've been doing some research. Yes, it does guzzle gas compared to a Mirage. But, compared to similar year, and similarly equipped trucks, its 16.4 mpg average is a fair percentage above average. So I shouldn't complain. I'm daily-ing it right now while my middle son is doing a long daily commute (50 miles one way) through the Thunderdome, for his one class.



Faru - You are being whomped at a bit more than might be necessary. But, I actually think the worst most horrible violators here (j/k contributors, I get butt-hurt sometimes too easily myself), are likely coming off more harsh than they realize. Please don't let it chase you away. I honestly believe that what WE (the whole crowd on this thread) want to read, is that you or your brother crawled around under (or maybe not even under) the car and found (for example) that the heat shield is rattling. Or the intake snorkle is rattling and the noise from it sounded far different than what you expected and is why it sounded like a chain rattle. So, don't run away, and DO follow up. We want to know. We don't want you to spend $1,000 in any event.

Even if it is in fact the timing chain, which we're not saying in UNPOSSIBLE, the collective is saying it is not likely, but if it is, WE WANT TO KNOW, for posterity of the forum. If it were the chain, your experience could be a good learning lesson for the whole forum.

Lastly - Likely Fummins would know, or may comment, but even with the valve cover off, it seems to me determining timing chain looseness would be difficult. Seems like it needs to be viewed from the side, between chain-gears, sprockets, whatever they're called.

[Fummins]

Attachment 23841

[Fummins]

Attachment 23842Off topic(who cares) first pic is of a 2014 cvt from my current car that had 283k kms(175k miles), second is 2017 Cvt with fancy roller camshafts(maybe has 30k miles or less)Attachment 23843

[Fummins]

These are what the lifters look like Attachment 23844Attachment 23845

[Fummins]

Faru - You are being whomped at a bit more than might be necessary. But, I actually think the worst most horrible violators here (j/k contributors, I get butt-hurt sometimes too easily myself), are likely coming off more harsh than they realize. Please don't let it chase you away.

Yeah, you're right. I guess everyone should have said nothing and let nature take it's course? I didn't see anything harsh in this thread. People are too sensitive.