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Thread: 3,000-4,000 mile oil change interval

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy Bear View Post
    Little secret. There is no such thing as a "Standard OCI Length". Oh, there's a number in the book based on Joe Average, governmental whims, current warranty length and whatever else makes a buck and allot of marketing. That circles back to the $$$$.

    First clue is that the number does not change during the life of the vehicle. The two biggest choices you will make most don't even consider. Ring seal and base oil type. All other things equal, and they never are, those two items set the oxidation rate (for a given temperature) the oil will experience. Blow by gasses load the oil with oxidation precursors and the base oil type resist those changes. The more oil you motor uses that is caused by ring seal loss the shorter the life of the oil. That doesn't mean that a motor that doesn't use oil doesn't need an oil change. ALL motors use oil. When someone, like myself, says, "my motor doesn't use oil" it means that by the time I change my oil, it hasn't used an amount I can measure.

    Now you don't actually choose ring seal, but you chose, or don't, to adjust OCI length accordingly. Machines are cleaver like that. They respond to exactly the inputs you give them in a very predictable way. We just are not well informed enough to understand the language they speak. Like a baby, it can't tell you it has a tummy ache but if you are in tune with the child you can figure it out. Right?

    A lot of things can condemn an oil. Some are obvious. Glycol contamination from a blown head gasket will get you to change your oil even if you changed it yesterday. Some are less obvious. Fuel dilution related viscosity break. Additive depletion. Rapid oxidation caused by the increased blowby of heavy loading, towing, high speed and increased temperature of the oil for the same reason. Excess water loading from winter driving and short tripping. Frozen PCV or ineffective CCV orifices. Leaky injectors even in dry MPFI systems. Worse, HPFP leaks in GDI engines. List is endless and most of it has nothing to do with the health of the motor and much to do with the environment it lives in and is operated under.

    Those differences start arguments when one fella who treats his machine X has no issues at recommended OCI and another has nothing but issues but treats it like Y. Or guy one uses a PAO/POE based oil and the other a mineral straight cut solvent dewaxed oil.

    Everything matters and nothing is standard. This leaves a guy with three choices. 1.) Do what you've always done and get the result you've always gotten, hopefully. This is what most choose to do 2.) Test to FIND the correct length for your service and monitor once in a while or when conditions change. 3.) Use really short OCI's.

    I'm 70. My 95-year-old father has run a few motors well past 750,000 miles on mineral oils that 'used no oil' and were as clean inside and the day they were built. Trick? 1K mile oil changes. On mineral oils from the late 1930's to the mid 1970's. His first car, a 28 Model A was changed every weekend and bulk oil strained through cheese cloth. LOL. Ah, what the heck. Oil was cheap then. Under a buck a quart when I started driving.

    Well, likely more than most will read these days so I'll stop here.
    You hear of the person with the 3 million mile volvo, read somewhere they were doing 3,000km (1875mile) changes. For me this is about the limit of time/money/engine happiness ratio. But certainly, there must be some kind of linear relationship between wear and OCI.



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    Quote Originally Posted by sunbeam View Post
    You hear of the person with the 3 million mile volvo, read somewhere they were doing 3,000km (1875mile) changes. For me this is about the limit of time/money/engine happiness ratio. But certainly, there must be some kind of linear relationship between wear and OCI.
    The relationship between wear and OCI has more to do with oil cleanliness that miles or time and cleanliness to the other factors I mentioned earlier. Something that either needs to be found, i.e. UOA's OR short OCI's and was the case with the Volvo. But no, not linear. GM did a study on this a long time ago. Filtration has a large impact on that part of the equation. Dilution, early OCI is a proxy for many things. :O

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    Quote Originally Posted by sunbeam View Post
    You hear of the person with the 3 million mile volvo, read somewhere they were doing 3,000km (1875mile) changes. For me this is about the limit of time/money/engine happiness ratio. But certainly, there must be some kind of linear relationship between wear and OCI.
    I think driving style can justify different OCI.

    Brian Murphy bought a 2007 Nissan Frontier (simple 4-cylinder, 2.5L, 5-speed manual transmission). He's a delivery man in the Chicago area, & he did 10,000 mile OCI. He clearly states he did them all himself (about 1:50 minutes into the clip below). He reached 1,000,000 miles on his Frontier (original engine & transmission, clutch replaced @ 801,000 miles), & it seems to still be going strong.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Cc3AgIy4vw


    Whereas

    Grace of West Bend, Wisconsin bought a 1957 Chevy Bel Air, & she drove it for 60+ years. I believe she stopped driving at age 92, & I've read where she passed away this past August. She clearly states 2,000 mile OCI were recommended, but she did 1,000 miles OCI in the clips below. Her Bel Air was the only car she ever owned.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W90zZfI9Fgs

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwcRG2aEi3s&t=46s

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    Quote Originally Posted by sunbeam View Post
    You hear of the person with the 3 million mile volvo, read somewhere they were doing 3,000km (1875mile) changes. For me this is about the limit of time/money/engine happiness ratio. But certainly, there must be some kind of linear relationship between wear and OCI.
    Yeah - especially when the story of the 414,000 mile Mirage seems to be that they just did oil changes at the standard interval (5,000 miles, I think?) That's enough for me. The car's still sitting in the front of the lot, by the way. Not sure if she still truly runs now that she just sits there most of the time.

    Name:  PXL_20240113_184501862.jpg
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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2024 Mirage ES 1.2 automatic: 38.8 mpg (US) ... 16.5 km/L ... 6.1 L/100 km ... 46.6 mpg (Imp)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    I think driving style can justify different OCI.
    Think I mentioned that. Short heat cycles are hard on oil and on the machine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy Bear View Post
    Think I mentioned that. Short heat cycles are hard on oil and on the machine.
    I responded to the 3 million mile Volvo post where under 2,000 mile OCI was credited. Whereas the Frontier goes 1,000,000 miles with 10,000 mile OCI.

    Someone who uses their car to get groceries, go to church, & not much more is not the same as someone who uses their vehicle to make a living.

    Like I mentioned. It can really vary!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    I responded to the 3 million mile Volvo post where under 2,000 mile OCI was credited. Whereas the Frontier goes 1,000,000 miles with 10,000 mile OCI.

    Someone who uses their car to get groceries, go to church, & not much more is not the same as someone who uses their vehicle to make a living.

    Like I mentioned. It can really vary!
    And I'm agreeing with you.

    I bought a Honda Civic HX in 89. Drove it 200K before I put in a clutch. Used no oil. Under 5% leak down. Sold it right afterwards to a neighbor boy for his 16th birthday. Two clutches before it made it to 205K. Blew the cam seals drifting and burnt the motor to the ground running it out of oil trying to drive it home. Yea, use matters a lot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    I responded to the 3 million mile Volvo post where under 2,000 mile OCI was credited. Whereas the Frontier goes 1,000,000 miles with 10,000 mile OCI.

    Someone who uses their car to get groceries, go to church, & not much more is not the same as someone who uses their vehicle to make a living.

    Like I mentioned. It can really vary!
    To add to this just something I have thought about with respect to mirage oil wear.

    The mirage is 3,000rpm+ over 100km/hr (62mph). So it is possible the highway mileage is also not as light on it as a vehicle that can cruise on a highway at lower rpm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sunbeam View Post
    To add to this just something I have thought about with respect to mirage oil wear.

    The mirage is 3,000rpm+ over 100km/hr (62mph). So it is possible the highway mileage is also not as light on it as a vehicle that can cruise on a highway at lower rpm.
    Small motor. High RPM. Yes, harder than the 1500 rpm my Buick 3800 spins at 60 mph. 2K pounds doesn't sound like much load but my motorcycle has a larger more powerful motor and at 1/3 the weight and a fraction of the frontal area. IMHO this isn't my first choice for Interstate/Autobahn driving. I know, people do it all the time and make it well past 100K miles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sunbeam View Post
    To add to this just something I have thought about with respect to mirage oil wear.

    The mirage is 3,000rpm+ over 100km/hr (62mph). So it is possible the highway mileage is also not as light on it as a vehicle that can cruise on a highway at lower rpm.
    Given the two schedules are 3,750 mile or 7,500 mile OCI, I lean closer to the lower one for reasons like you just mentioned. Plus, there's only 3 quarts of oil doing all that work, & my personal driving is a mix of short & long trips.

    If Steve's "cheap plastic car" can go 300,000+ miles (5,000 mile OCI with 5W-30 conventional oil), I somewhat assume using a full synthetic oil would do just as good or even better.

    The GM 3.8L 6-cylinder was one of their best of all time. 4.5 quarts of oil may not be working as hard (lower rpm) unless you were towing or something.

    On a personal level, I like 5,000 mile OCI. My 2017 is around 84,400 miles. Without giving it much thought, I know my next oil change is @ 85,000 miles. I like simple & easy!

    I've said this in other threads before - If I bought a new Mirage today, I would do my first oil change @ 2,000 miles, 2nd one at 5,000 miles (3,000 mile OCI), and third one @ 10,000 miles (every 5,000 miles after that). I wouldn't let Mitsubishi dictate when my oil changes were done, but that's me.



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