New to forum and Mirage!

[redline81]

Hi everyone!
First 6 months and 7000 Km with my brand new Mirage (Space Star III in Italy), switched on LPG recently with very good results!
So far some pros and cons:
+ Very happy with all the tech features
+ Good value for the price
+ Comfortable seats, compared with other similar cars
- Bouncy suspensions
- Steering feedback

On the engine:
+ Fuel efficient, even on LPG (drops 15/20% efficiency)
+ Balanced, considering the 3-inline structure
+ Very good progression
- Not that much torque, under full load going up to hills requires some shift work
- Noisy on cold startups

Overall impressions are very good so far! Hope to make some friends here and share our experiences
Cheers!

[Eggman]

Hello redline81 and welcome to the forum. Always interesting to read about LPG conversions for these cars.

[7milesout]

In Italy, what must be done to use LPG? I'm an automotive engineer, but I don't know anything about converting to LPG. It's a very interesting thing to consider.

[redline81]

In Italy, what must be done to use LPG? I'm an automotive engineer, but I don't know anything about converting to LPG. It's a very interesting thing to consider.

Nothing special, thanks to the good diffusion of gas stations having also LPG, you can find several good LPG automotive specialists around. They fit the new tank into the spare wheel vane, fit tubes, electronics (there's a separate ECU for LPG), injectors, a little level indicator and LPG/Gas switch near the bottom cup holder. LPG injectors in Mirage are put directly on the intake manifold, with 3 little holes. LPG ECU will then decide when to activate the LPG injectors or the gas injectors (on startup, for instance) After installation, they program the LPG ECU for your engine, some revving, a test drive and it's done. On the legal side, an officer from DMV will check the correct installation and will release a new sticker for the car registration. Officially, the car will get "Bi-Fuel" after that, but there's also the possibility to completely remove the gas tank (fitting a little 15 liters gas tank only for starting) and have considerable discounts (-75%) on road tax. For Mirage, I think it's not worth the case, but if you got a turbocharged 3.0L that would be a very good deal, since road tax has and additional multiplier over 150 Hp

[7milesout]

Nothing special...

Ahhhhh, you're being facetious. That is a lot, and it doesn't sound like a clean install. Though I've never seen it done.

[Fummins]

Welcome.
There seems to be some contradicting info regarding propane use on these cars. I believe some cars are fine out of the box but some require hardened valve seats? At least that used to be the case?
Here's a thread from another member from Italy that ran on propane. https://mirageforum.com/forum/showth...-LPG-(Propane)

I had an old 70' Ford that was only propane powered. It was a pita to get it filled up in the evenings cause only certain people were aloud to fill it up. And many stations don't sell propane. I ended up converting it back to gas.

Our Forklifts at work are all propane powered, the exhuast doesn't burn your eyes, the oil stays nice and clean typically. Except for a few that are never ran long enough to actually heat up(they're only ran for 2 mins at a time 3-4 times a day) and burn off all the condensation in the crank case so the oil turns milky not long after an oil change.

Over here there's little to no incentive to drive something more efficient.

I pay more to insure my Mirage than my older more stinky diesel truck. Plates/registration cost the same whether I drive a 5 ton as a daily driver or Mirage. The only place you pay more for driving a gas/diesel hog is at the pump.

[redline81]

Ahhhhh, you're being facetious. That is a lot, and it doesn't sound like a clean install. Though I've never seen it done.

Why it does not sound a clean install?

[redline81]

Welcome.
There seems to be some contradicting info regarding propane use on these cars. I believe some cars are fine out of the box but some require hardened valve seats? At least that used to be the case?
Here's a thread from another member from Italy that ran on propane. https://mirageforum.com/forum/showth...-LPG-(Propane)

I had an old 70' Ford that was only propane powered. It was a pita to get it filled up in the evenings cause only certain people were aloud to fill it up. And many stations don't sell propane. I ended up converting it back to gas.

Our Forklifts at work are all propane powered, the exhuast doesn't burn your eyes, the oil stays nice and clean typically. Except for a few that are never ran long enough to actually heat up(they're only ran for 2 mins at a time 3-4 times a day) and burn off all the condensation in the crank case so the oil turns milky not long after an oil change.

Over here there's little to no incentive to drive something more efficient.

I pay more to insure my Mirage than my older more stinky diesel truck. Plates/registration cost the same whether I drive a 5 ton as a daily driver or Mirage. The only place you pay more for driving a gas/diesel hog is at the pump.

Hey thank you for your insights. So sad that there are no incentives in running cleaner fuels or pollute less.
There have been a lot of discussions around in Italy for several engines running on LPG (actually has propane inside, but it's not 100% propane). When cold, engine stays on gasoline for several minutes, until LPG ECU detects sufficient engine temperature to switch fuel. That kind of trick should solve also the condansation issue with your engines. A big concern for gasoline engines when you are about to convert them on LPG is that LPG burns slower and with slight higher temperature than gasoline, therefore at high RPMs the risk is to have part of the final combustion flame touching the open exhaust valves and seats, taking them to premature wearing. In some cases people needed to rework the head after 70.000 Km or less. There's little literature about the "Bi-fuel" version on Mirage (Space Star) distributed in Italy, AFAIK is a standard 3A92 with a LPG system tuned and supplied by the well-known manufacturer BRC. Not knowing if seats and valves in my Mirage are good enough to resist 100K or more kms on LPG, the specialist suggested me to install a little additive dispenser (Flashlube), which injects into intake manifold a very small amount of catalyzer-friendly lubricant and valve protector (proportion is like 1 / 1000). This mixture will also slightly speed up LPG combustion, getting (hopefully) similar valve wearing of gasoline-only engines. I'll let you know if that was a good or bad choice

[Fummins]

Hey thank you for your insights. So sad that there are no incentives in running cleaner fuels or pollute less.
There have been a lot of discussions around in Italy for several engines running on LPG (actually has propane inside, but it's not 100% propane). When cold, engine stays on gasoline for several minutes, until LPG ECU detects sufficient engine temperature to switch fuel. That kind of trick should solve also the condansation issue with your engines. A big concern for gasoline engines when you are about to convert them on LPG is that LPG burns slower and with slight higher temperature than gasoline, therefore at high RPMs the risk is to have part of the final combustion flame touching the open exhaust valves and seats, taking them to premature wearing. In some cases people needed to rework the head after 70.000 Km or less. There's little literature about the "Bi-fuel" version on Mirage (Space Star) distributed in Italy, AFAIK is a standard 3A92 with a LPG system tuned and supplied by the well-known manufacturer BRC. Not knowing if seats and valves in my Mirage are good enough to resist 100K or more kms on LPG, the specialist suggested me to install a little additive dispenser (Flashlube), which injects into intake manifold a very small amount of catalyzer-friendly lubricant and valve protector (proportion is like 1 / 1000). This mixture will also slightly speed up LPG combustion, getting (hopefully) similar valve wearing of gasoline-only engines. I'll let you know if that was a good or bad choice

You should post some pics of your setup if you can!

It wasn't until recently I learned that some(if not all) efi dual fuel setups run on gas when cold.

[7milesout]

If fork lifts can crank up on LPG, why couldn't a Mirage? I'm sure there's some reason, but it seems to be a hurdle that can be jumped...