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Thread: Question on 14-15 vs 17+ CVTs

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fummins View Post
    I had a reply typed out then forgot to post it....
    As mentioned, all years of the cvt are identical. There's no extra connector on the 17+ to enable the Ds mode. It's not a mechanical shift position, there's an electric switch on the shifter inside the car that's pushed when the shifter is slide sideways to the ds position.
    I assume it has wires that go to the tcm where it does it's magic then heads over to the transmission. Probably similar to how some 5 speed allisons can have a 6th gear enabled? I dunno...

    As for a Ravigneaux setup, No clue.
    Ok-- that makes sense. If you were able to swap a 2017 transmission into a 2014 with no unaccounted for connectors, it makes sense that it would be an external computer that puts it into the Ds mode.

    Still curious as to what happens in the transmission once the message is sent by the computer. The Ds mode is different from the L mode, and each of the modes could be effectuated by the use of different mappings of belt ratios at the pullies. But I wonder if either mode is effectuated (totally or in part) by the auxiliary transmission.



    Quote Originally Posted by Fummins View Post
    https://mirageforum.com/forum/showth...r-Attrage-2017

    I still have the old cvt from my 2014 sitting in the corner of my garage for some reason. Maybe I'll attempt to make a vijeo of tearing into it one day? It still worked but didn't like to upshift sometimes. Maybe a sticky solenoid in the valvebody?
    You should do that-- I wouldn't have hesitated at all to tear into it! I've already seen a number of tear-down videos of the JF015E, and it's all surprisingly straightforward.

    I somehow had it in my mind that the belt system in a CVT would require hyper-exact settings/tolerances, similar to how pinion gears have to be precisely matched in a differential.

    But watching those videos, there was nothing special about any part of that transmission. Pretty simple to get out of the car, to take apart, to determine what the problem is, and to fix it.

    Since I've not done it, I can't be absolutely certain, but I'm pretty sure that if I had a transmission problem, I could not only fix it myself, I could effectively remanufacture it myself. The result would be a transmission that's as good as new and ready for another ~200K miles of service.

    I suppose I could be proven wrong on that, but at the moment I at least wouldn't be afraid to try it.



  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Rogers View Post

    Yeah, I'm a little torn on that. My "Mirage Plan" involves buying a used one and keeping it running myself for many years/miles. Since I'll be doing any work myself, simplicity is important (and one of the main reasons I'm choosing a Mirage for this plan).

    So, the manual would fit my plan the best.

    However, manual transmission versions are much harder to find around here, and, since pretty much all my current cars are manuals, I'm getting a little tired of all the shifting in city driving. Same with my wife-- she's been driving a stick for many years and would rather have an automatic now.

    Thus my reseearch into how complicated/simple the JF015E is to work on. I'll have to say that I'm kind of impressed with 1) the design of this transmission, 2) the reliability of it, and 3) the fact that it doesn't look to be too bad to work on.

    So, while I am a bit torn, I think the odds are pretty good that I'll be going with the automatic.
    Having owned both, I would buy a Manual version again, and would not buy a CVT version again. The manual is so much better it's not funny honestly. If you are trying to talk yourself into buying a CVT then just do it and don't test drive a manual that way you can save yourself the pain of knowing how much better the car could be. BUT if you are still on the fence definitely test drive a manual so you can see how drastic the difference is and make the correct choice.
    Resident Tire Engineer

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 44.4 mpg (US) ... 18.9 km/L ... 5.3 L/100 km ... 53.3 mpg (Imp)


  3. #13
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    Yeah, I'm still kind of on the fence and trying to rationalize the CVT.

    And you're not helping!

    As I said, I'm just at the beginning of my research for this purchase, and likely won't be buying anything soon. So, I have plenty of time to take in information as to what I should get.

    I'll be hanging out on this forum quite a lot. Great group of people here-- very helpful information!

  4. #14
    If it helps, there have been a handful of clutch cable failures. Some people complain of worn syncro's too. Anything can break.

    I'm lazy and don't mind the cvt. I drove 6-speed(manual..) trucks as a commuter car for a while and that got old when stuck in traffic. Or at the gas station...

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage SE wussie cvt edition. 1.2 automatic: 37.7 mpg (US) ... 16.0 km/L ... 6.2 L/100 km ... 45.3 mpg (Imp)


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    Dirk Diggler (11-17-2022)

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    It's true that anything can break, and I'm not sure the CVT is any harder to fix than syncros in a manual would be.

    I don't know if I'm lazy or just getting old, but I'm kind of sick of shifting as well. My main vehicle at the moment is a 2002 F150 with a manual. In that truck, the manual adds nothing to the driving experience-- an automatic would be a big improvement in that thing (IMO).

    I really like simple, stripped-down cars, so the ones you have in Canada with the manual windows is intriguing to me. Do you (or anyone else) happen to know if there is any barrier to buying a car in Canada and bringing to the U.S. and licensing it as a regular driver?

  7. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Rogers View Post
    It's true that anything can break, and I'm not sure the CVT is any harder to fix than syncros in a manual would be.

    I don't know if I'm lazy or just getting old, but I'm kind of sick of shifting as well. My main vehicle at the moment is a 2002 F150 with a manual. In that truck, the manual adds nothing to the driving experience-- an automatic would be a big improvement in that thing (IMO).

    I really like simple, stripped-down cars, so the ones you have in Canada with the manual windows is intriguing to me. Do you (or anyone else) happen to know if there is any barrier to buying a car in Canada and bringing to the U.S. and licensing it as a regular driver?
    Afaik you guys have mandatory tpms. We don’t have that on our Mirages. Otherwise I don’t know any other hops you’d have to jump through to import one from here. I’d avoid anything from the east. Southern Bc Vancouver area is where all the nice stuff is.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage SE wussie cvt edition. 1.2 automatic: 37.7 mpg (US) ... 16.0 km/L ... 6.2 L/100 km ... 45.3 mpg (Imp)


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    Thanks for the info!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Rogers View Post
    It's true that anything can break, and I'm not sure the CVT is any harder to fix than syncros in a manual would be.

    I don't know if I'm lazy or just getting old, but I'm kind of sick of shifting as well. My main vehicle at the moment is a 2002 F150 with a manual. In that truck, the manual adds nothing to the driving experience-- an automatic would be a big improvement in that thing (IMO).

    I really like simple, stripped-down cars, so the ones you have in Canada with the manual windows is intriguing to me. Do you (or anyone else) happen to know if there is any barrier to buying a car in Canada and bringing to the U.S. and licensing it as a regular driver?
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    Or you could go the other route and treat yourself to a BE or SE. Even the base ES 2021-23 comes stacked with amenities. 100k mile warranty and quality CVT7 advice on here, particularly from Fummins, should inspire confidence of at least netting 150k to 200k miles out of your transmission. Probably more, I'd bet with diligent maintenance. I worried too about the cvt but my old 2014 DE CVT never missed a beat and I beat the dog**** out of it driving for Uber.

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    You're right, Dirk, and what you outline is along the lines of what I'm thinking. I feel sort of binary on this choice-- if I have to accept even one frill, then I feel like I might as well have them all.

    I.e., a 2017 ES seems like the most stripped model one can have. If I go to a 2015, I have to accept auto climate control. Ok, maybe that's not such a big deal because maybe that system is reliable enough that it doesn't really add any complication.

    But if I go to a 2018 ES, then I get a screen and a backup camera. I hate screens! And a backup camera seems totally unneeded in such a small car. So, if I accept that camera/screen, I might as well get the cruise, usb, forward collision monitoring, etc. Which means that a 2018 ES is almost the worst of all worlds-- I take on a frill I really don't want, but I don't get several that I do want.

    So, I guess my current order of preference is:

    #1: 2017 ES. The most stripped, but not seeing many of them around. For some reason, what few are listed are priced high. Maybe that will change-- I'll continue to look.

    #2: 2015 DE. As stripped as the 2017 ES except for auto climate controls. Lots of them for sale, many at good prices (even with low miles). I might favor the softer ride and I'm ok with the older styling. Don't want the auto climate control, but it might not be that big of a deal.

    #3: 2019 ES. Has the bluetooth, touchscreen and backup camera that I hate, but I get cruise (that I want). Last year of manual HVAC.

    #4: 2020+. Not that much worse (as far as frills) than the 2019. Gotta accept auto climate controls (but, hey, I would have to take that in the 2015!) and forward collision monitoring, but is that really all that much more stuff than the 2019? In exchange the car would be much newer. On the other hand, it would also be much more expensive.

    With that list in mind, I'm keeping an eye out for a 2017 ES that might pop up at a low price (seems unlikely anytime soon), or go for a $4-5K 2015 DE (of which I'm seeing several that look to be in good shape and have 90-110K miles).

    That's the current thinking, anyway. But since I'm just at the beginning of thinking about all this, I could change my mind at any time!

  11. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Rogers View Post
    You're right, Dirk, and what you outline is along the lines of what I'm thinking. I feel sort of binary on this choice-- if I have to accept even one frill, then I feel like I might as well have them all.

    I.e., a 2017 ES seems like the most stripped model one can have. If I go to a 2015, I have to accept auto climate control. Ok, maybe that's not such a big deal because maybe that system is reliable enough that it doesn't really add any complication.

    But if I go to a 2018 ES, then I get a screen and a backup camera. I hate screens! And a backup camera seems totally unneeded in such a small car. So, if I accept that camera/screen, I might as well get the cruise, usb, forward collision monitoring, etc. Which means that a 2018 ES is almost the worst of all worlds-- I take on a frill I really don't want, but I don't get several that I do want.

    So, I guess my current order of preference is:

    #1: 2017 ES. The most stripped, but not seeing many of them around. For some reason, what few are listed are priced high. Maybe that will change-- I'll continue to look.

    #2: 2015 DE. As stripped as the 2017 ES except for auto climate controls. Lots of them for sale, many at good prices (even with low miles). I might favor the softer ride and I'm ok with the older styling. Don't want the auto climate control, but it might not be that big of a deal.

    #3: 2019 ES. Has the bluetooth, touchscreen and backup camera that I hate, but I get cruise (that I want). Last year of manual HVAC.

    #4: 2020+. Not that much worse (as far as frills) than the 2019. Gotta accept auto climate controls (but, hey, I would have to take that in the 2015!) and forward collision monitoring, but is that really all that much more stuff than the 2019? In exchange the car would be much newer. On the other hand, it would also be much more expensive.

    With that list in mind, I'm keeping an eye out for a 2017 ES that might pop up at a low price (seems unlikely anytime soon), or go for a $4-5K 2015 DE (of which I'm seeing several that look to be in good shape and have 90-110K miles).

    That's the current thinking, anyway. But since I'm just at the beginning of thinking about all this, I could change my mind at any time!
    Have you seen the used market? I'm seeing 2018 with 40k miles for $17k. I paid a grand more total for brand new. I wouldn't roll the dice on a 100k mile Mirage amigo, not for $5k. That price seems to good to be true to me, be careful, but then again we don't have rust issues in my neck of the woods, so you might get better used prices in the upper Midwest.

    I'd wait as long as I could for prices to go down because they are, albeit slowly, if you're dead set on going the used right. We bought my wife a used 2017 ES G4 CVT for $10k from a shady Mitsu dealer and that car was nothing but a headache because it was kept from us that the engine had been replaced poorly and it was plagued with electrical issues. I don't know about you but a piece of mind 100k mile warranty and knowing full well how well kept I keep my cars has convinced me to never buy used again. 3 out 6 used cars I bought were lemons and all 6 were independently inspected by a professional. I'm too old to roll the dice, not when I'm buying a cheap new econobox to begin with that fits my budget.

    I'd look at a Yaris or a Fit first if my budget was $5k. In this market, that kind of money won't get you much right now IMO.



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