Question on 14-15 vs 17+ CVTs

[Jim Rogers]

I'm probably going to buy a used Mirage in the next six months or so, and I'm at the beginning stages of my research.

Since I'm seeing lots of 2015's available, I'm trying to determine whether the differences between those and the 2017+ models should affect my decision.

Thanks to this forum, I've found most of the differences (cam, brakes, rear axle, styling, etc.), but one of the major changes that I'm having more trouble finding information about is the CVT transmission change.

I currently have three questions:

--Did the Mirage ever change to the JF020EW/R? I have confirmed that the 2017 still had the JF015E, but don't seem to be able to find definitive information that it continues to use it beyond 2017.

--If the 2017+ still have the JF015E, how is the change in shift modes (D/Ds/L vs D/B) implemented?
*Fummins notes that he has put a 2017 cvt into a 2015-- were any modifications needed to the shift linkage to deal with the appearance of the Ds mode after the swap? Does his 2015 now have three modes after the swap?

--More generally speaking, how are the different shift modes implemented? If I had to guess, I would say:
*The difference between D/B (14-15) and D/L (17+) is that D uses both the first and second gears of the auxiliary two-speed transmission while B and L are restricted to only using the first (low) gear.

*Ds uses both the first and second gears of the auxiliary transmission, but the computer directs the pully/belt system to use higher rev ratios regardless of what gear the auxiliary transmission is in.

Is my speculation correct, or am I off base?

Thanks!

[Fummins]

They all use the same transmission. The shift cable and linkage is the same. Both the 14-current Mirage have the same P,R,N,D,L positions. The DS mode on the 17+ is just an electric switch on the shifter inside the car, it doesn't physically shift anything on the transmission. It's not needed or missed on the earlier models imo. I don't race car my car but when I do I just stuff it in B or L or whatever it is..
I considered sticking a 17 shifter in my 14 but there are a lot of wiring changes between 14,15 and 17. The gains aren't worth the effort to me, even if it was just plug and play..

15-17 and newer are the same, the big questions was whether a newer cvt would fit an early 14' model. If you look up part numbers on a mitsu parts site they list the early 14' as having a different part number altogether. I took a gamble and tried a 17 and it worked. I already knew the 15 and newer were interchangeable.

[Dirk Diggler]

I'm probably going to buy a used Mirage in the next six months or so, and I'm at the beginning stages of my research.

Since I'm seeing lots of 2015's, available, I'm trying to determine whether the differences between those and the 2017+ models should affect my decision.

Thanks to this forum, I've found most of the differences (cam, brakes, rear axle, styling, etc.), but one of the major changes that I'm having more trouble finding information about is the CVT transmission change.

I currently have three questions:

--Did the Mirage ever change to the JF020EW/R? I have confirmed that the 2017 still had the JF015E, but don't seem to be able to find definitive information that it continues to use it beyond 2017.

--If the 2017+ still have the JF015E, how is the change in shift modes (D/Ds/L vs D/B) implemented?
*Fummins notes that he has put a 2017 cvt into a 2015-- were any modifications needed to the shift linkage to deal with the appearance of the Ds mode after the swap? Does his 2015 now have three modes after the swap?

--More generally speaking, how are the different shift modes implemented? If I had to guess, I would say:
*The difference between D/B (14-15) and D/L (17+) is that D uses both the first and second gears of the auxiliary two-speed transmission while B and L are restricted to only using the first (low) gears.

*Ds uses both the first and second gears of the auxiliary transmission, but the computer directs the pully/belt system to use higher rev ratios regardless of what gear the auxiliary transmission is in.

Is my speculation correct, or am I off base?

Thanks!

I looked everywhere to see if the newer Mirages have the new JATCO CVT7 W/R but I couldn't find out anything. Frankly I doubt it, but the original CVT7 seems to work just fine for most folks.

[Jim Rogers]

Thanks for that info, guys.

Note that my question about the JF020E is just for my information, not because I have any problem with the JF015E. If there had been a switch at some point, I would like to be aware of it just to get an idea of parts availability and such.

My guess (which is pure speculation) is that since the JF020E has the wide-range feature, it's designed to put into small vehicles with off-road pretentions (i.e., crossover SUVs), which means it's not really necessary for the Mirage.

Also, the whole reason for the CVT-7's powerglide-like two speed auxiliary transmission is specifically to reduce the need for the belt to have to go to the more extreme ratio positions which is supposed to allow for greater reliability. Since it would seem that putting the wide-range feature in that transmission negates that benefit, I'm even happier to have the narrow-range JF015E in the Mirage.

Given that, as you can see I'm not worried about interchangeability as I'm not looking to do any swaps. I'm just trying to get a handle on which transmissions are in which car so I can be better informed as to any advantages/disadvantages between the different models.

Any insights as to my questions on the mechanisms of the different drive modes? Regardless of how useful they are, I'm still interested in how the transmission actually achieves the different modes. Different use of the two-speed auxiliary transmission? Different programming of ratios at the belt? Something totally different?

Also wondering what the Ds switch at the shifter is connected to. Does it toggle something in the transmission itself, or does it go to a power control module that then regulates the transmission? If it goes to the transmission itself, do the 14-15 transmissions have the connector for it?

Again, I'm not trying to make any points with these questions, just curious as to how it all works as I consider the various models for potential purchase.

I really appreciate the help so far!

[Dookaughs]

Thanks for that info, guys.
Also, the whole reason for the CVT-7's powerglide-like two speed auxiliary transmission is specifically to reduce the need for the belt to have to go to the more extreme ratio positions which is supposed to allow for greater reliability.

Any insights as to my questions on the mechanisms of the different drive modes? Regardless of how useful they are, I'm still interested in how the transmission actually achieves the different modes. Different use of the two-speed auxiliary transmission? Different programming of ratios at the belt? Something totally different?

Also wondering what the Ds switch at the shifter is connected to. Does it toggle something in the transmission itself, or does it go to a power control module that then regulates the transmission? If it goes to the transmission itself, do the 14-15 transmissions have the connector for it?

I drive an 2018 SE with the DS, and I do notice the two speed "powerglide-like" transmission. It'll "shift" after 15 mph (I do not exactly recall which speed) but after that all the speed is on a single band.

The DS feature is neat but I would not use it by nature of the CVT operating on a "band" although I've never built a CVT Transmission - I could imagine the CVT Band slipping, with the amount compression/engine brake generated by the motor in the DS gear selection.

Everything below this is Cruise Control related and theoretical
`Set` at 25 mph to `Acc` to 50 mph this will have a static rate of RPM's, but accelerating beyond 50mph will force the motor into the 4k+ range in order to accelerate in many cases. I will incrementally rock the `Acc`to slowly and economically "pur" the motor (and C.V.T.)to the desired speed. However, the cruise control is a lot more permissive towards lower RPM's when `Res` back to a faster than current speed. They may have tried to add performance by doing a high rev feature for the Cruise C. Acceleration on the C.V.T. instead of biting the bullet with our limited torque...You could be going nowhere fast.

You may or may not be able to accelerate better with the accelerator pedal than with the cruise control. Wear and Tear is something to consider too.
I think the C.V.T. has a very nice sound... I can hear it clearly when bleeping the `Acc` rocker switch!


How CVT works

[mohammad]

@dirk i maybe able to answer your question

Jatco CVT 7 has a ratio coverage of 7.3 http://e.jatco.com.mx/products/cvt7.html
Jatco cvt 7 W/R has a ratio coverage of 8.7 https://www.jatco.co.jp/english/rele...51013_574.html

The mirage has a CVT ratio of 4.01-0.55 according to this: https://www.caranddriver.com/mitsubishi/mirage/specs

4.01/.55=7.2909 Therefore we can reasonably conclude that we do not have the wide range version of the CVT 7.

[Dirk Diggler]

@dirk i maybe able to answer your question

Jatco CVT 7 has a ratio coverage of 7.3 http://e.jatco.com.mx/products/cvt7.html
Jatco cvt 7 W/R has a ratio coverage of 8.7 https://www.jatco.co.jp/english/rele...51013_574.html

The mirage has a CVT ratio of 4.01-0.55 according to this: https://www.caranddriver.com/mitsubishi/mirage/specs

4.01/.55=7.2909 Therefore we can reasonably conclude that we do not have the wide range version of the CVT 7.

Thank you for that! I've been scouring news articles instead of doing basic math lol. Shame on me.

All the dealers in my city are out of Mirages almost. Perhaps it shouldn't matter which version of the CVT7 we get.

[7milesout]

Jim - You could source a 5-speed and disregard all the CVT shenanigans ... just sayin'. To each his own.

[Jim Rogers]

@dirk i maybe able to answer your question

Jatco CVT 7 has a ratio coverage of 7.3 http://e.jatco.com.mx/products/cvt7.html
Jatco cvt 7 W/R has a ratio coverage of 8.7 https://www.jatco.co.jp/english/rele...51013_574.html

The mirage has a CVT ratio of 4.01-0.55 according to this: https://www.caranddriver.com/mitsubishi/mirage/specs

4.01/.55=7.2909 Therefore we can reasonably conclude that we do not have the wide range version of the CVT 7.

Nice detective work, Mohammad-- thanks!

Jim - You could source a 5-speed and disregard all the CVT shenanigans ... just sayin'. To each his own.

Yeah, I'm a little torn on that. My "Mirage Plan" involves buying a used one and keeping it running myself for many years/miles. Since I'll be doing any work myself, simplicity is important (and one of the main reasons I'm choosing a Mirage for this plan).

So, the manual would fit my plan the best.

However, manual transmission versions are much harder to find around here, and, since pretty much all my current cars are manuals, I'm getting a little tired of all the shifting in city driving. Same with my wife-- she's been driving a stick for many years and would rather have an automatic now.

Thus my reseearch into how complicated/simple the JF015E is to work on. I'll have to say that I'm kind of impressed with 1) the design of this transmission, 2) the reliability of it, and 3) the fact that it doesn't look to be too bad to work on.

So, while I am a bit torn, I think the odds are pretty good that I'll be going with the automatic.

I don't seem to be getting any answers to my questions about how the different transmission modes are implemented, so I probably won't get an answer to my next question either. No problem with that as my questions are probably a bit obscure, but I'll go ahead and ask it here so it will be on the record and someone might turn up that knows the answer and will find it.

So, the question is: Since the auxiliary transmission is a two-speed planetary, why did they use a Ravigneaux-type of double planet system? The advantage of that setup is that is provides extra forward speeds. But in the JF015E, only two forward speeds and reverse are needed, so it seems that a simple, single planet system (like in a Model T or a Powerglide) would have been sufficient while also being simpler and cheaper.

What benefit would a Ravigneaux setup have in this application?

Again, this question mostly comes from my curiosity-- it's not a deciding factor in what I will buy.

[Basic]

Yeah, I'm a little torn on that. My "Mirage Plan" involves buying a used one and keeping it running myself for many years/miles. Since I'll be doing any work myself, simplicity is important (and one of the main reasons I'm choosing a Mirage for this plan).

So, the manual would fit my plan the best.

However, manual transmission versions are much harder to find around here, and, since pretty much all my current cars are manuals, I'm getting a little tired of all the shifting in city driving. Same with my wife-- she's been driving a stick for many years and would rather have an automatic now.

Thus my reseearch into how complicated/simple the JF015E is to work on. I'll have to say that I'm kind of impressed with 1) the design of this transmission, 2) the reliability of it, and 3) the fact that it doesn't look to be too bad to work on.

So, while I am a bit torn, I think the odds are pretty good that I'll be going with the automatic.

Having owned both, I would buy a Manual version again, and would not buy a CVT version again. The manual is so much better it's not funny honestly. If you are trying to talk yourself into buying a CVT then just do it and don't test drive a manual that way you can save yourself the pain of knowing how much better the car could be. BUT if you are still on the fence definitely test drive a manual so you can see how drastic the difference is and make the correct choice.