Favorite fuels

[foama]

I assume your talking about Euro 98 octane(RON) which is the equivalent to 93 Octane(AKI) in North America.

In Europe both E 10 and E5 come from pumps labeled "95 octane" the exotic sort called "super plus" comes from a pump labeled "98 octane".
Noteable difference between E10 and E5 are alcohol content and price, E10 being about 5% cheaper. "Super plus" is maybe 20% or so more expensive.
Our cars are intended to take either E10 or E5.

[Grumpy Bear]

I assume your talking about Euro 98 octane(RON) which is the equivalent to 93 Octane(AKI) in North America.
Octane rating at the pump:
RON - Research Octane Number
Calculation for octane number for fuel @ 600 RPM

MON - Motor Octane Number
Calculation for octane number for fuel @ 900 RPM

AKI - Anti-Knock Index
Average of RON and MON (This is used in US and Canada)
[(R+M)/2]

87 AKI = 91 RON
91 AKI = 93 RON
93 AKI = 98 RON
100 AKI = 104 RON
104 AKI = 108 RON

I pour in gas that smells like gas. Hasn't let me down yet. I typically fuel up days before prices drop.
Cost me $200 to fuel(diesel) up my truck the other day(120L/31 gallons). I got 9mpg on the last tank

The Euro to North America equivalent is an educated guess. They, the government, need a number. There's a number. See the link below.

AKI is an average. Same AKI can be reached with different KI's or the spread between the Motor and Research number. The GUESS is based on a statistical average. The number on the pump is a requirement for minimum. I've distilled a few million barrels of gasoline. Gasoline isn't a single stream distillation. It's a blend of many sources in the refinery and will be different depending on which refinery and which crude source. They don't all have the same equipment. The 'requirements' are for octane, RVP (Reid Vapor Pressure) and D86 (distillation specifics) like Initial boiling point and End Point. Volume 50% and so on. Then the fun begins. Oxygen/Nitrogen content, Butane content and aromatic content. Isomerization level. Refromate level. These requirements change sometimes by county in placed like Chicago and LA. Then each oil company has its own additive package. Here in the USA and I expect anywhere else there is regulation these all have a MINIMUM requirement. Meeting that requirement doesn't mean the refiner must use the minimum. Some use more and more detergency is good, it also cost more.

All these requirements can be blended ten ways to Sunday. Flexibility is key in a refinery. The feed source is constantly changing and not all equipment is in operation all the time. Cost is always a concern. We used 'real time integration' to change operation to suit all variables at the lowest cost.

When alcohol was added it added oxygen and octane to the blend stock used for these blends needed less processing and as a result start at a lower octane. 87 E-0 has more aromatics than 87 E-10 and the octane of E-10 is the result of blending 84.5 octane gasoline with alcohol at 112 octane.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating

[Mark]

The Euro to North America equivalent is an educated guess. They, the government, need a number. There's a number. See the link below.

AKI is an average. Same AKI can be reached with different KI's or the spread between the Motor and Research number. The GUESS is based on a statistical average. The number on the pump is a requirement for minimum. I've distilled a few million barrels of gasoline. Gasoline isn't a single stream distillation. It's a blend of many sources in the refinery and will be different depending on which refinery and which crude source. They don't all have the same equipment. The 'requirements' are for octane, RVP (Reid Vapor Pressure) and D86 (distillation specifics) like Initial boiling point and End Point. Volume 50% and so on. Then the fun begins. Oxygen/Nitrogen content, Butane content and aromatic content. Isomerization level. Refromate level. These requirements change sometimes by county in placed like Chicago and LA. Then each oil company has its own additive package. Here in the USA and I expect anywhere else there is regulation these all have a MINIMUM requirement. Meeting that requirement doesn't mean the refiner must use the minimum. Some use more and more detergency is good, it also cost more.

All these requirements can be blended ten ways to Sunday. Flexibility is key in a refinery. The feed source is constantly changing and not all equipment is in operation all the time. Cost is always a concern. We used 'real time integration' to change operation to suit all variables at the lowest cost.

When alcohol was added it added oxygen and octane to the blend stock used for these blends needed less processing and as a result start at a lower octane. 87 E-0 has more aromatics than 87 E-10 and the octane of E-10 is the result of blending 84.5 octane gasoline with alcohol at 112 octane.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating

Bottom line - You pretty much have to pick from what is available to you in your area.

I choose 87/E10 for my Mirage, because the owner's manual states that is acceptable. 87/E10 has been available for decades. More recently, 88/E15 has appeared on the scene at some gas stations. If I am filling up a flex fuel vehicle, I don't hesitate to use 88/E15, because it tends to be 5-10 cents/gallon cheaper in my area. I haven't used E85 fuel, because the flex fuel vehicles I use are not mine (driving school instructor). If I was told to use E85 fuel, I wouldn't hesitate to do that.

I use 91/E0 gas for all my at home items, because I feel small engines do better without ethanol. This is especially true of 2-stroke engines. If I take 5 gallons home, I may mix 40:1 gallon from that for my chainsaws & grass trimmer. Ask any chainsaw repair person & they will tell you ethanol gas is the number issue they deal with. I purchased my grass trimmer in 1994. My four chainsaws are late 1990, 2000, 2004, & 2005, & I never have fuel related issues with them when using E0 fuel. My stuff is old, but it still gets used quite a bit.

I purchased one of my push mower in the late 1990s. After one year, it stopped running. A small engine shop showed my how the ethanol gas curled the rubber flap in the carburetor. I stopped using any ethanol, & I have never had the problem again. I have, however, fixed several mowers (owned by others) who have had that problem since that time. Afterwards I stress avoiding ethanol if possible. Although 91/E0 is more expensive than 87/E10 & 88/E15 in my area, I find the lack of headaches worth the extra cost.

Personally, I like the Kwik Trip gas stations in my area. If the pump offers 87/E10, 88/E15, 91/E0, & E85, the pump will have 4 separate hoses. It leaves no concern about what's left in the hose. Some pumps will have diesel instead of E85 as an option, too. I haul diesel fuel home for my compact tractor, too.

This is how sensitive small engine shop people are about ethanol. If multiple pumps share one hose, they recommend putting some non-ethanol gas in your car first to clear out the hose, and then fill your gas can.

[Eggman]

Bottom line - You pretty much have to pick from what is available to you in your area.

I choose 87/E10 for my Mirage, because the owner's manual states that is acceptable. 87/E10 has been available for decades. More recently, 88/E15 has appeared on the scene at some gas stations. If I am filling up a flex fuel vehicle, I don't hesitate to use 88/E15, because it tends to be 5-10 cents/gallon cheaper in my area. I haven't used E85 fuel, because the flex fuel vehicles I use are not mine (driving school instructor). If I was told to use E85 fuel, I wouldn't hesitate to do that.

I use 91/E0 gas for all my at home items, because I feel small engines do better without ethanol. This is especially true of 2-stroke engines. If I take 5 gallons home, I may mix 40:1 gallon from that for my chainsaws & grass trimmer. Ask any chainsaw repair person & they will tell you ethanol gas is the number issue they deal with. I purchased my grass trimmer in 1994. My four chainsaws are late 1990, 2000, 2004, & 2005, & I never have fuel related issues with them when using E0 fuel. My stuff is old, but it still gets used quite a bit.

I purchased one of my push mower in the late 1990s. After one year, it stopped running. A small engine shop showed my how the ethanol gas curled the rubber flap in the carburetor. I stopped using any ethanol, & I have never had the problem again. I have, however, fixed several mowers (owned by others) who have had that problem since that time. Afterwards I stress avoiding ethanol if possible. Although 91/E0 is more expensive than 87/E10 & 88/E15 in my area, I find the lack of headaches worth the extra cost.

Personally, I like the Kwik Trip gas stations in my area. If the pump offers 87/E10, 88/E15, 91/E0, & E85, the pump will have 4 separate hoses. It leaves no concern about what's left in the hose. Some pumps will have diesel instead of E85 as an option, too. I haul diesel fuel home for my compact tractor, too.

This is how sensitive small engine shop people are about ethanol. If multiple pumps share one hose, they recommend putting some non-ethanol gas in your car first to clear out the hose, and then fill your gas can.

Speaking about small engines, haven't manufacturers updated those rubber seals to better tolerate the ethanol blends?

[Mark]

Speaking about small engines, haven't manufacturers updated those rubber seals to better tolerate the ethanol blends?

I still use the same push mower I shared in the story. I take care of 4 of them that are of that vintage. I like them, because they run forever. Items like boat motors have gone 4-stroke, but a lot 2-stroke engines still exist. Gas powered chainsaws are still 2-strokes. Ethanol gas doesn't mix as well with 2-stroke motor oil, but there are other issues. Just Google search it & you will find the following -

"Yes, many manufacturers recommend using ethanol-free fuel in small engines if possible. Ethanol is a grain alcohol that's designed for larger engines like cars and trucks, but it can be harmful to small engines in outdoor power equipment like lawn mowers, leaf blowers, and chainsaws:

Ethanol attracts water: Ethanol can cause moisture to concentrate in the gasoline, which can corrode engine parts.

Ethanol can gum up engines: Ethanol can leave behind carbon deposits that can gunk up small engines and fuel lines.

Ethanol can burn hotter: Ethanol burns hotter in smaller engines, which can damage engine parts."

[Eggman]

Ethanol can gum up engines: Ethanol can leave behind carbon deposits that can gunk up small engines and fuel lines.

This is interesting. If I remember correctly didn’t Grumpy Bear say ethanol burns cleaner? Maybe I’m misunderstanding this.

[Grumpy Bear]

This is interesting. If I remember correctly didn’t Grumpy Bear say ethanol burns cleaner? Maybe I’m misunderstanding this.

Alcohol is a solvent. Lots of small engine carburetor parts are damaged by solvents. Wouldn't have to be but is what it is. It's how Stihl sells $30 a quart fuel. Fear.

Alcohol burns clean. It does not burn "hotter". Fact is, it takes more to make the same heat. It's heat of vaporization 'cools'. Put some on your skin and blow. It ain't rocket science. Its why ethanol gets worse fuel economy. Alcohol is in what is in most gas driers. It puts water into solution, so it passes harmlessly through the system. Anyone take eight grade chemistry? It does not cause gums. That's a gasoline thing. Polymerization. Ethanol doesn't polymerize. There is a lot of trash on the internet.

Modern fuel systems are CLOSED. Nothing for the hydroscopic nature of alcohol to attract that wasn't in the tank in the ground.

If your carburetor has a polymer diaphragm, don't use E-10. If it has a float, it won't hurt a thing. Methanol is a carb (zinc) killer. Not ethanol.

[Eggman]

Alcohol is in what is in most gas driers. It puts water into solution, so it passes harmlessly through the system.

Just to be clear, by gas drier are you referring to fuel additives that 'remove' water from gas tanks to control fuel line freeze-up?

Anyone take eight grade chemistry? It does not cause gums. That's a gasoline thing. Polymerization. Ethanol doesn't polymerize. There is a lot of trash on the internet.

Ha! Eighth grade chemistry was a long time ago - please be gentle with us peons who haven't spent their lives living & breathing petroleum processing.

Petroleum is what drives our lives these days, and I have much to learn. You have so much good info to share, please keep sharing.

[Mark]

Alcohol is a solvent. Lots of small engine carburetor parts are damaged by solvents. Wouldn't have to be but is what it is. It's how Stihl sells $30 a quart fuel. Fear.

Alcohol burns clean. It does not burn "hotter". Fact is, it takes more to make the same heat. It's heat of vaporization 'cools'. Put some on your skin and blow. It ain't rocket science. Its why ethanol gets worse fuel economy. Alcohol is in what is in most gas driers. It puts water into solution, so it passes harmlessly through the system. Anyone take eight grade chemistry? It does not cause gums. That's a gasoline thing. Polymerization. Ethanol doesn't polymerize. There is a lot of trash on the internet.

Modern fuel systems are CLOSED. Nothing for the hydroscopic nature of alcohol to attract that wasn't in the tank in the ground.

If your carburetor has a polymer diaphragm, don't use E-10. If it has a float, it won't hurt a thing. Methanol is a carb (zinc) killer. Not ethanol.

This is an area where I take advice from those who work on small engines day in & day out. Those who really know small engines will avoid all pre-mixed canned gasoline, too. Only the clueless buy that stuff.

I bought 10 gallons of non-ethanol gas this past week. It may end up in one of my 4 chainsaws, grass trimmer, rototiller, log splitter, pressure washer, 3 push mowers, riding lawnmower, UTV, and 2 ATVs. Most everything I own falls between 1985 - 2006. The only exception would be the pressure washer, which my dad gave me when he bought an electric one a few years ago.

I keep a number of small engines running (most of my stuff is old, but runs great), and using non-ethanol fuel has eliminated all gas related issues for me. Some items that sit for months (like my rototiller) do much better with non-ethanol fuel. I like avoiding headaches.

If you want to use ethanol in your small engines by all means do that. Just don't call me like some of my friends who have fuel related issues with their small engines & want my help to fix it.

[Grumpy Bear]

This is an area where I take advice from those who work on small engines day in & day out. Those who really know small engines will avoid all pre-mixed canned gasoline, too. Only the clueless buy that stuff.

I bought 10 gallons of non-ethanol gas this past week. It may end up in one of my 4 chainsaws, grass trimmer, rototiller, log splitter, pressure washer, 3 push mowers, riding lawnmower, UTV, and 2 ATVs. Most everything I own falls between 1985 - 2006. The only exception would be the pressure washer, which my dad gave me when he bought an electric one a few years ago.

I keep a number of small engines running (most of my stuff is old, but runs great), and using non-ethanol fuel has eliminated all gas related issues for me. Some items that sit for months (like my rototiller) do much better with non-ethanol fuel. I like avoiding headaches.

If you want to use ethanol in your small engines by all means do that. Just don't call me like some of my friends who have fuel related issues with their small engines & want my help to fix it.

Harsh and inaccurate. What did I say? Why do you do this?

I mix my own fuels for my 2 strokes. E-0 100 octane BP and AMSOIL low ash 2 stroke oil 40:1. I use the gas straight up in the Briggs & Straton, Tecumseh and Clinton motors that have diaphragms and rubber bulbs. The older Kohler and Wisconsin stuff with automotive style float carburetors I'd use whatever. I also use a shot of PEA in everything. Run them dry after use and don't store with fuel in the system.