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Thread: Lubrication

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    Note the three categories on this document. Approvals, Recommendation's, and Exceeds Requirements of:

    Interesting note under Recommendation's from Exxon Mobil:
    Recommended by ExxonMobil for applications requiring ACEA C2


    Any idea what the difference is between ACEA C2 and every one of those OEM requirements for which this product has received approval? Any idea why EXXONMOBILE would make that recommendation? IF you figure out the first the second will be obvious.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy Bear View Post
    Any idea what the difference is between ACEA C2 and every one of those OEM requirements for which this product has received approval? Any idea why EXXONMOBILE would make that recommendation? IF you figure out the first the second will be obvious.
    I give up. What's the difference & what's EXXONMOBILE's motivation?

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 49.6 mpg (US) ... 21.1 km/L ... 4.7 L/100 km ... 59.5 mpg (Imp)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Eggman View Post
    I give up. What's the difference & what's EXXONMOBILE's motivation?
    The difference is the HTHS viscosity. That value that is closest to the operating conditions within the motor.
    HTHS is "High Temperature and under high shear". Porsche C30 and the others mentioned, including ACEA C3, stipulate a MINIMUM of 3.5 cP at 150 C, a published number, and "Stay in Grade" at 100 C, unpublished. ACEA C2 has a minimum requirement of 2.9cP.

    You would be amazed at the number of SAE/ILSAC/API approved *W30 oils that will not meet this spec and still meet the general viscosity specification for the SAE grade. Yes even DEXOS1Gen2&3 oils. Why it is generally unpublished. It has to do with the cost of the VII package that makes it a multigrade.

    As this number is THE number that determines WEAR ExxonMobil is smart enough to know that any motor that requires C2 WILL benefit from the C3 oil.

    Until recently ExxonMobil was the formulator and supplier for GM oil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy Bear View Post
    The difference is the HTHS viscosity. That value that is closest to the operating conditions within the motor.
    HTHS is "High Temperature and under high shear". Porsche C30 and the others mentioned, including ACEA C3, stipulate a MINIMUM of 3.5 cP at 150 C, a published number, and "Stay in Grade" at 100 C, unpublished. ACEA C2 has a minimum requirement of 2.9cP.

    You would be amazed at the number of SAE/ILSAC/API approved *W30 oils that will not meet this spec and still meet the general viscosity specification for the SAE grade. Yes even DEXOS1Gen2&3 oils. Why it is generally unpublished. It has to do with the cost of the VII package that makes it a multigrade.

    As this number is THE number that determines WEAR ExxonMobil is smart enough to know that any motor that requires C2 WILL benefit from the C3 oil.

    Until recently ExxonMobil was the formulator and supplier for GM oil.

    Where do you rank Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 compared to other choices? Best choice? Best value?

    When you walk into your local Walmart, do you pick this over anything else?

    If you don't shop at Walmart, humor me. I live in rural SW Wisconsin, and Walmart is my nearest retailer. Next option would be Blain's Farm & Fleet 35 miles away.

    I refuse to pay extra for oil at Auto Zone, O'Reilly's or wherever if the same brand is cheaper at Walmart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    Where do you rank Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 compared to other choices? Best choice? Best value?

    When you walk into your local Walmart, do you pick this over anything else?

    If you don't shop at Walmart, humor me. I live in rural SW Wisconsin, and Walmart is my nearest retailer. Next option would be Blain's Farm & Fleet 35 miles away.

    I refuse to pay extra for oil at Auto Zone, O'Reilly's or wherever if the same brand is cheaper at Walmart.
    I started running this oil in a GMC Terrian 2.4 'oil burner'. Mainly in self defense. Low SAPS lengthens cats and O2 life a bunch when you are consuming a quart in 2K miles.

    Where do I rank it? Hum...among self-oils? Pretty much the top of the food chain. 0W30 or 5W30. Wally carries the 0W30 most of the time. Among ALL oils there are better choices and that has to do with long term cleanliness. This Mobil offering used to contain some Ester and AN. Since it's refresh, neither. So, oils like Ravenol C3, AMSOIL Euro, Red Line HP EURO and HPL EURO (All 5W30's and a few 0W30's by brand) still have a major solvency advantage and higher oxidation initiation temperatures. But change the Mobil a bit more often and it could be a very serviceable oil. IMHO naturally.

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  11. #56
    Senior Member Wallythacker's Avatar
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    Let me post a random off the wall musing I have.

    LeMans hypercar

    do they just pour in oil anyone could buy at walmart?
    Zero, 2014 ES Plus 5MT, written off but not forgotten.
    Zero II, 2014 SE, 5MT, climate She's HOME now!
    Shelby AKA "Cute", 2017 ES 5MT, A/C.

    Mirage owners look at the world differently than everyone else, but in a better way
    We're driving the Beetle of the 21st century, the greatest small car now available!

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2017 Mirage ES PLus 1.2 manual: 39.0 mpg (US) ... 16.6 km/L ... 6.0 L/100 km ... 46.8 mpg (Imp)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallythacker View Post
    Let me post a random off the wall musing I have.

    LeMans hypercar

    do they just pour in oil anyone could buy at walmart?
    Really? LOL

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    Just crossed 400K Km with a GM Ecotec 2.4 L-4. A pig of a motor truth be told. Low tension rings. GDI pump and water pump failures pumping fuel and glycol into the crankcase. LOL. 3X longer than average. How has this come to be?

    Hint: Don't drink the Kool-Aid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy Bear View Post
    Just crossed 400K Km with a GM Ecotec 2.4 L-4. A pig of a motor truth be told. Low tension rings. GDI pump and water pump failures pumping fuel and glycol into the crankcase. LOL. 3X longer than average. How has this come to be?

    Hint: Don't drink the Kool-Aid.
    What was your oil brand/weight/filter/interval combo?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sunbeam View Post
    What was your oil brand/weight/filter/interval combo?
    Right idea, wrong question. Tell me about this motor's history?

    Wifes vehicle and her budget to work with. She also believes in the idea that things should work as she thinks they should according to cost, and not as they are engineered. Just use what the book says like it says. Hummm

    Bought used with low miles. Around 20K and no written maintenance history known. That was my first mistake.
    Quaker State Ultimate Durability 5W30 Dexos1Gen2 on book OCI's of 7.5K and WIX filters to start. By the book Mistake #2.
    As most of the Ecotec series motors do, around 80K on the clock she starts gulping oil hard. As this motor was my first rodeo with a GDI that had low tension rings I hired an expert tribologist and deferred to his recommendations placing my experience in subjection. Mistake #3. UOA shows excessive fuel dilution. I place the motor on 2K OCI's and Kirkland Signature 5W30 Dexos1Gen2. It' is cheap enough to pour on the ground as UOA after UOA I get bad dope on 'what to do next". Mistake #4. My gut says it's the HPFP puking into the crankcase. Expert says while high, isn't high enough to be that so pretty much the entire ignition system is replaced, he's sure about this. I ignore my gut. Mistake #5. Then the entire vapor recovery system gets a top to bottom overhaul. tens of thousands of miles pile up.

    Finally exasperated I say now we do it my way. I change the pump and the fuel issue is resolved first crack. Good measure I replace all injectors with the pump as well and reroute the CCV into a PCV as I got tired of $500 trips to unplug the cast in orifice.

    That out of the way I set about 'freeing' the stuck rings which is why it STARTED using oil but not why it uses it today. Tried several motor flushes. No joy. GM top end soak. Bingo but short lived. KREEN and again success but short lived. KREEN again followed by HPL EC40, an ester based product that worked pretty good. UOA showed the wear metals back in the normal range but blowby is high, oil consumption improved but not as it should be. I stay on HPL EC40 5:1 with Shell Rotella T6 5W30 (cheap) and it does well for about 40K miles and then...boom. Consuming again.

    Auto-Rx and Shell T1 SAE 30 for 3K miles and brother the rings freed up big time. Coked the filter and required frequent changes early on. Good compression, low blowby and for a few OCI's, now 1K it looked like it was past the hump. NOT......

    Bore polish from the tens of thousands of miles of paid for expert care. Runs like a top. Quite as a mouse. Fuel efficient and an oil guzzler. About ready to stick a pin in it although it would run like this for another hundred thousand.

    Had I done as most do. Pour bad oil in, change on OLM and ignore the problem until the pump leaked so bad the level rose, this motor would have lost a bore or a bearing by 100K. Still running the original timing chain and the tensioners are good. Will turn over 250K miles in a few days. Still take it on trips.

    Currently on Mobil 1 ESP 5W30 and Purolator L series filters on 2K OCI's and have the oil consumption down to about a quart in 2K instead of a quart in 600 miles. Valve cover off at 100K to fix a cam phaser looked like black death inside. Now...clean.

    DEXOS oil did NOT keep the ring pack clean. Did NOT keep the cam phaser solenoid screens clean. Did NOT keep the CCV system clean. Not even on fractional OCI's of OEM set OLM's. No fuel in the oil didn't help but I did run OCI's short enough to keep it a 30 weight. In other words, I change oil on the condition of the oil and not on the OLM.

    Contrast this with my Ecotec3 4300 which has lived most of its trouble free 180K miles on 5K OCI's of Red Line HP or HP Euro 5W30 and Purolator PUREONE or Fram XG filters which looks like it has never been run inside. Uses less than a half a cup between changes. Same GDI, same low-tension rings. Does have an actual PCV valve though.

    What would I do differently? Good question because I have this identical motor in a 2014 Buick Verano with but 19K on the clock.
    This one is on Red Line HP Euro 5W30 and Purolator PUREONE filters at 2.5K (4K Km) OCI and gets a UOA for fuel every 10K.



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