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Thread: Valve noise on start-up!

  1. #91
    Senior Member AtomicPunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allrock View Post
    Thats the reason they stop the 0w20 here its thin and some engine with the maximum tolerance parts suffer because the thin oil cant do its job protecting the metals.

    Sorry friend, I was being a little sarcastic. The startup noise everyone talks about is clearly from the top end of the engine. Most likely valve clatter until oil is pumped up. Now, not saying Foama doesn't have bad bearings, just the classic start up noise isn't that.

    And I could understand stopping 0w-20 in the Philippines. With average temps around 80F/26C, stays warm there.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Eggman View Post
    Are you sure it’s not the hydraulic actuator for the variable valve timing?
    Positive! Drop the oilpan grab the bottom of a conrod and and vigorously and quickly move it back and forth or sideways, the rattle you hear is the same.

    Quote AtomicPunk:
    Who knew Mitsubishi's tolerances were so sloppy that the bearings would make that much noise, lol.

    Answer:
    Its not about tolerances, they are small, precise, and comparable with other makers engines, the 3-cylinder Toyota 1KR for example. The bearings are bone dry at startup when they rattle, and thats why they rattle.

    Ever since this car has an oil filter with an exceptionally good anti-drainback valve, (OP575 from Filtron.pl) the startup rattle has become almost non-existant.

    If your's rattles, try a better oil filter!
    You might want to look at this: https://academy.filtron.eu/homepage/

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by foama View Post
    Positive! Drop the oilpan grab the bottom of a conrod and and vigorously and quickly move it back and forth or sideways, the rattle you hear is the same.

    Quote AtomicPunk:
    Who knew Mitsubishi's tolerances were so sloppy that the bearings would make that much noise, lol.

    Answer:
    Its not about tolerances, they are small, precise, and comparable with other makers engines, the 3-cylinder Toyota 1KR for example. The bearings are bone dry at startup when they rattle, and thats why they rattle.

    Ever since this car has an oil filter with an exceptionally good anti-drainback valve, (OP575 from Filtron.pl) the startup rattle has become almost non-existant.

    If your's rattles, try a better oil filter!
    You might want to look at this: https://academy.filtron.eu/homepage/
    I believe the sloppy bearings comment was purely a joke (being facetious).

    Most oil filters these days have good anti-drainback valves. A few may, however, lack one completely.

    As far as Filtron oil filters go, they are owned by MANN + HUMMEL. A Filtron oil filter is not one you would find in a store here, but MANN + HUMMEL has products in North America.

    The current MANN + HUMMEL owned products for North America are MANN, PUROLATOR, & WIX oil filters. I've never really searched for a MANN oil filter, but the other two are easily found in the States at least. BOSCH used to be on their list of products, but that has changed?

    You can search what MANN + HUMMEL oil filters are sold in North America by clicking "Americas/Automotive/Engine Oil Filtration/Aftermarket Customer" from the site below, you will find the companies I mentioned above.

    https://www.mann-hummel.com/en/products.html

    Even the entry level Fram oil filter (Extra Guard) has the same good quality anti-drainback valve of the more expensive Ultra Synthetic.
    Last edited by Mark; 08-28-2021 at 07:30 PM.

  4. #94
    Moderator Eggman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by foama View Post
    Positive! Drop the oilpan grab the bottom of a conrod and and vigorously and quickly move it back and forth or sideways, the rattle you hear is the same.
    I’m not about to remove my oil pan.

    Interesting that you are certain that this startup noise is coming from your connecting rods. Most everyone else thinks it’s coming from the valvetrain. Maybe it’s a different set of symptoms?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    I believe the sloppy bearings comment was purely a joke (being facetious).

    Most oil filters these days have good anti-drainback valves. A few may, however, lack one completely.

    As far as Filtron oil filters go, they are owned by MANN + HUMMEL. A Filtron oil filter is not one you would find in a store here, but MANN + HUMMEL has products in North America.

    The current MANN + HUMMEL owned products for North America are MANN, PUROLATOR, & WIX oil filters. I've never really searched for a MANN oil filter, but the other two are easily found in the States at least. BOSCH used to be on their list of products, but that has changed?

    You can search what MANN + HUMMEL oil filters are sold in North America by clicking "Americas/Automotive/Engine Oil Filtration/Aftermarket Customer" from the site below, you will find the companies I mentioned above.

    https://www.mann-hummel.com/en/products.html

    Even the entry level Fram oil filter (Extra Guard) has the same good quality anti-drainback valve of the more expensive Ultra Synthetic.
    @ Mark:
    I agree with what you say, but there is something worth pointing out. Mann&Hummel always had a good reputation, being long term OEM supplier for just about every German brand. Further expansion of Mann&Hummel, beyond the Ludwigsburg and Stuttgart area factories involved a few take-overs. The Filtron business was one of these take-overs, based in Poland and they were selling a good portion of their products for the Eastern European market. After they were taken over, their factories were heavily modernised and greatly expanded, so the Filtron plants in Poland became most probably the most modern in the entire Mann&Hummel corporation. They also make their own anti-drainback valves on site. According to my experience, the Filtron.pl anti-drainback valves seal even better than those of their original Mann&Hummel branded products.
    In my car the Poland made Filtron oil filter cures the rattle problem, while other filters do let some oil drain back and make the car rattle on startup. Of course big differences remain between the products of different brands. The products of the various factories within the same corporatrion are also not 100% identical, but the Filtron product cures that oil-starvation startup-rattle problem in my car, which is what matters to me and why I buy their product.

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    Quote Originally Posted by foama View Post
    @ Mark:
    I agree with what you say, but there is something worth pointing out. Mann&Hummel always had a good reputation, being long term OEM supplier for just about every German brand. Further expansion of Mann&Hummel, beyond the Ludwigsburg and Stuttgart area factories involved a few take-overs. The Filtron business was one of these take-overs, based in Poland and they were selling a good portion of their products for the Eastern European market. After they were taken over, their factories were heavily modernised and greatly expanded, so the Filtron plants in Poland became most probably the most modern in the entire Mann&Hummel corporation. They also make their own anti-drainback valves on site. According to my experience, the Filtron.pl anti-drainback valves seal even better than those of their original Mann&Hummel branded products.
    In my car the Poland made Filtron oil filter cures the rattle problem, while other filters do let some oil drain back and make the car rattle on startup. Of course big differences remain between the products of different brands. The products of the various factories within the same corporatrion are also not 100% identical, but the Filtron product cures that oil-starvation startup-rattle problem in my car, which is what matters to me and why I buy their product.
    Your points are well taken. Others are making similar claims with other filters on the forum. Example -

    "I am using a Fram Ultra Synthetic oil filter and have had absolutely no valve train rattle on cold starts. I guess the Anti Drain Back Valve makes a difference." - post made by spiritorb on 1/30/2021 on a different thread

    I'm sure the Filtron OP575 is an excellent oil filter, but it is not sold in North America. Last time I did a search, getting one would have cost $25-30 after shipping. I can pick up a Fram Ultra Synthetic XG7317 (20,000 mile filter) @ my local Walmart for $8.34.

    I have seen enough clips to know all Fram oil filters (Extra Guard, Tough Guard, & Ultra Synthetic) have the exact same anti-drainback valve. If that is a concern, all these filters have a good one.

    I do believe MANN + HUMMEL has improved the quality of Purolator oil filters in recent years. I favor the mid-price Purolator ONE oil filters, because they are available where I like to shop for oil filters. I am not opposed to buying oil filters @ Walmart. In that case, I would go with the Fram Ultra Synthetic or Mobil 1.

    Also keep in mind several companies that sell oil filters are not oil filter manufacturers. Mobil 1, STP, SuperTech, K&N & others come to mind. For example, Mobil 1 is not an oil filter manufacturer. Their oil filters were made by Champion Laboratories in the past. Mobil 1 oil filters are now a MANN + HUMMEL product sold under the Mobil 1 brand name. Want proof of this -

    Mobil 1™ Extended Performance Oil Filter limited warranty

    MANN+HUMMEL Purolator Filters LLC (“MANN+HUMMEL”) provides this limited warranty to the original purchaser who use Mobil 1™ Extended Performance oil filter products manufactured or sold by MANN+HUMMEL (“Covered Products”). Covered Products are warrantied to be free from defects in material and workmanship for the duration of the original equipment recommended change interval.

    To initiate a claim, call +1 800 526-4250 or email: MPUS_Warranty@mann-hummel.com

    I just cut/pasted some of the warranty information. You can read the entire warranty @

    https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/...imted-warranty

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    @ Mark:
    I agree with what you are saying, but want to make an overlooked point clear.

    Mann&Hummel bought a few factories from competitors. There obviously were alterations and other improvements in the products made after aquisition, but they didn't just throw out every machine in the factory they bought. So there are subtle differences between products according to which factory made them. For example, the filtron plant is amongst the most modern and makes the very best anti-drainback valves in house, and excellent other products.

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    Quote Originally Posted by foama View Post
    @ Mark:
    I agree with what you are saying, but want to make an overlooked point clear.

    Mann&Hummel bought a few factories from competitors. There obviously were alterations and other improvements in the products made after aquisition, but they didn't just throw out every machine in the factory they bought. So there are subtle differences between products according to which factory made them. For example, the filtron plant is amongst the most modern and makes the very best anti-drainback valves in house, and excellent other products.
    I don't think anyone could overlook your points. It's very clear that you feel Filtron has the best anti-drainback valve ever made for an oil filter. I am in no position to argue that.

    I am also well aware Poland has this spectacular factory, but someone like myself could care less. Their products aren't sold here. So what't the point? I am just stating/pointing out that MANN & HUMMEL may have made some positive changes in North America, too.

    I personally believe the Purolator Boss is currently the best oil filter sold in the United States, but it's also a $15 oil filter. I could be totally wrong about that, but I haven't seen anything to convince me a better oil filter exists. I also feel perfectly fine using their cheaper mid-grade oil filter & changing my oil/filter every 5,000 miles. I would have confidence in using the Fram Ultra Synthetic, Mobil 1, and Wix XP oil filters, too. They are all decent quality oil filters for a fair price.

    I wish we had the "Holy Grail" of oil filters (Filtron XP575) for our Mirages, but we don't! I highly doubt anyone is missing your points!

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    Senior Member klroger's Avatar
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    My Volkswagen doesn't even have an oil filter. It has 97,000 miles on it & it doesn't burn oil... Are we over thinking the whole filter thing??? Or what???
    I didn't know what to do, so I didn't do anything

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  11. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by hflaisher View Post
    Talk to any knowledgeable engineer or technician such as Pat Goss, and they will agree.
    I'm a multi-patented design engineer. One of my patents was from my time spent working for Toyota at their Technical Center in Michigan as a design engineer. So, I'll talk to myself about it. Just talked to myself, and I don't agree. Not all noise is detrimental.


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