Why Cant i tow with a mirage

[db1980]

I think some of the legalities are discussed earlier in this thread too. Regardless, as I mentioned, I just wouldn't do it. Brake assisted or not. If you drove one with a trailer half the weight you are talking about as I did, I think you would feel the same.

Thanks again for the input guys, it's appreciated.

Found some interesting tidbits about towing with a Yaris (nearly equivalent GVW with the Mirage):

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/200...ng-conspiracy/

Taking the authors point about legalities and liabilities that vary from country to country, how
can the exact same vehicle go from no towing whatsoever (USA), to 700lbs unbraked (Canada),
to 2315lbs braked (UK)?

[tlstreak]

you can do whatever you want but youll only do it once with that trailer. too much everything. you are only taking in weight, have you put any thought about wind resistance?

I will probably tow more than anyone on this forum. i sell trailers and am always doing something. on the road it needs to be light with limited wind resistance. i will only drive with in a 10 mile radius of my home. no highway at all. if your planning on more buy a tow vehicle. they can do an occasioanl trip to a hardware store, or some odd job that you may do once. anything more buy a new car.

[91cavgt]

Thanks again for the input guys, it's appreciated.

Found some interesting tidbits about towing with a Yaris (nearly equivalent GVW with the Mirage):

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/200...ng-conspiracy/

Taking the authors point about legalities and liabilities that vary from country to country, how
can the exact same vehicle go from no towing whatsoever (USA), to 700lbs unbraked (Canada),
to 2315lbs braked (UK)?

That's a 1:1 towing weight ratio that is deemed completely safe and legal in the UK.

Maybe I can shed some light on this. Over seas, it is quit common to see a small car towing a rather large trailer but that is not the case here in the Americas. One of the reasons is due to the speeds traveled. In Europe, specifically England, it is common to tow a trailer at speeds of only 30 mph. In America, if you were to try that you would be ticketed for multiple reasons, one of which is driving below the minimum speed, in most areas the minimum speed is 45 mph.

If you have ever watched the BBC TV show Top Gear, you would occasionally see those guys towing a medium size RV being towed by a small car at low speeds with a large amount of traffic behind them. The guys would say that the car was being driven as hard as they could, but the car just didn't have enough power to even come close to keeping up with traffic.

Not to mention that typically, you want 10% of the trailer weight on the hitch of the car. If you have less than that, you can end up with a VERY dangerous situation where trailer sway can very easily cause a loss of control and a wreck.

[alex16]

I agree! The Mirage can be used to tow with a experienced driver at the wheel but like every vehicle it does have it's limits. I wouldn't travel over 60mph with any trailer behind a Mirage (the small tires on the trailer are normally rated 45-55mph). I wouldn't tow anything over 1000 lbs gross on the highway, low speeds anything over 1000lbs is going to be manageable but not safe for large highways/interstates. Overall this looks unsafe and for around city driving with a brake controller/trailer brakes I think it would be okay, although the transmission may heat up/clutch may burn, plus this is factoring in no passengers. For any type of highway driving I would recommend something a little bigger, a small 4 cylinder truck would be a good economical choice for a tow vehicle, although the trailer brakes are always recommended. As mentioned before the tongue weight should be close to 10%, keeps the trailer straight/handles much better.

[Littlestan]

To clarify then; it's the general consensus that it is unsafe for me to use an 'upgraded' Mirage 5MT
with higher rated springs than stock and rear torsion bar for towing a 1400 lbs single axle 6x10 trailer
equipped with electric brakes capable of at least stopping it's own weight, and having a tongue weight
of around 140lbs which is 60lbs short of the 200lb hitch tongue weight limit?

I'm going to take a drive down to my local Transport Canada office and see if I can yak at someone
there about this as well. I just got off the phone with a buddy who has his Class 1 and tows for a living
who figures that as long as the trailer has brakes and I'm not exceeding any of the hitch weight limits, I'd
be well within the margin of safety required for 100km/h (62mph) highway speeds. He mentioned
something about brakes not even being a legal requirement until 3000lbs, but they'd be pretty
much necessary with 1400lbs on a small car like the Mirage.

My previous vehicle was a 1995 Honda Acty pickup truck. It had a 660cc engine with 47hp and
weighed 1800lbs. It was shaped like a brick (almost zero aerodynamics) and I commuted in it
everyday for a 72km round trip at 110km/h on the highway for 5 years before getting the Mirage.

I may end up just getting the hitch and borrowing a brake controller, wiring it up temporarily and
renting a cargo trailer from U-Haul just to try this out.

[alex16]

U haul cargo trailers are over engineered for commercial use and very heavy even when empty, they also only use surge braking systems if they do have breaks, the size your looking at may not have breaks (single axle smaller utility box). My mirage struggles with a 1200lb load of people, maybe with a lower geared transmission it would be better but I really have to make the 1.2 scream with over 1000lbs to keep up with traffic. Try it out if you would like not saying the mirage can't do it, it just won't like it much. Drive safe and hopefully nothing bad happens. I've seen a 1/2 ton truck pull 20,000lbs on a trailer, just because it can do it doesn't mean it's safe. I feel like I'm taking risks pulling 1200lbs gross trailer (small flatbed harbor freight) but I will avoid highways as much as possible and will primarily use for local hauling.

[91cavgt]

To clarify then; it's the general consensus that it is unsafe for me to use an 'upgraded' Mirage 5MT
with higher rated springs than stock and rear torsion bar for towing a 1400 lbs single axle 6x10 trailer
equipped with electric brakes capable of at least stopping it's own weight, and having a tongue weight
of around 140lbs which is 60lbs short of the 200lb hitch tongue weight limit?

I'm going to take a drive down to my local Transport Canada office and see if I can yak at someone
there about this as well. I just got off the phone with a buddy who has his Class 1 and tows for a living
who figures that as long as the trailer has brakes and I'm not exceeding any of the hitch weight limits, I'd
be well within the margin of safety required for 100km/h (62mph) highway speeds. He mentioned
something about brakes not even being a legal requirement until 3000lbs, but they'd be pretty
much necessary with 1400lbs on a small car like the Mirage.

My previous vehicle was a 1995 Honda Acty pickup truck. It had a 660cc engine with 47hp and
weighed 1800lbs. It was shaped like a brick (almost zero aerodynamics) and I commuted in it
everyday for a 72km round trip at 110km/h on the highway for 5 years before getting the Mirage.

I may end up just getting the hitch and borrowing a brake controller, wiring it up temporarily and
renting a cargo trailer from U-Haul just to try this out.

I'm willing to bet money that a Mirage towing that trailer you posted a picture of would not be able to get up to 62 mph at all on flat ground due to the aerodynamics.


There is a saying that is very appropriate for this situation. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.


Please stay safe.

[db1980]

It really seems like you are getting caught up in "is it possible". Yes. Is it practical or safe? No. Will you want to use this setup on even a semi regular basis ? I doubt it highly. It seems like you are missing out on major parts of the argument here. You sound pretty intelligent, and you have people that have towed much smaller, lighter trailers saying "our trailers push the limits of the car, you don't really want to do this", and you admitted yourself you have no experience towing anything with any vehicle, so I really don't understand this train of thought.

What is the purpose of doing this with a Mirage? You are not going to get good gas mileage, it will be very unstable/unsafe, and it is going to be VERY hard on the car. It's not a comfort/convenience thing, it's physics. Seriously, take that few hundred dollars from whatever upgrades you think will make this safe/possible and the uhaul test rental, buy some beat up, worn out, rusty pickup/car that weighs closer to 3000lbs than 2000lbs and has a longer wheelbase. Its a MUCH better idea if you have to have a trailer that size. If you go through with this, there is a 95% chance that you are going to say to yourself "man, that was a waste of time and money"

If you are doing it for bragging rights, all the power to ya, I just wouldn't want to be on the same stretch of road. I guess I don't really have anything else to say, just trying to caution you against doing something you will probably regret.

[cchataway]

It really seems like you are getting caught up in "is it possible". Yes. Is it practical or safe? No. Will you want to use this setup on even a semi regular basis ? I doubt it highly. It seems like you are missing out on major parts of the argument here. You sound pretty intelligent, and you have people that have towed much smaller, lighter trailers saying "our trailers push the limits of the car, you don't really want to do this", and you admitted yourself you have no experience towing anything with any vehicle, so I really don't understand this train of thought.

What is the purpose of doing this with a Mirage? You are not going to get good gas mileage, it will be very unstable/unsafe, and it is going to be VERY hard on the car. It's not a comfort/convenience thing, it's physics. Seriously, take that few hundred dollars from whatever upgrades you think will make this safe/possible and the uhaul test rental, buy some beat up, worn out, rusty pickup/car that weighs closer to 3000lbs than 2000lbs and has a longer wheelbase. Its a MUCH better idea if you have to have a trailer that size. If you go through with this, there is a 95% chance that you are going to say to yourself "man, that was a waste of time and money"

If you are doing it for bragging rights, all the power to ya, I just wouldn't want to be on the same stretch of road. I guess I don't really have anything else to say, just trying to caution you against doing something you will probably regret.

If there is a warranty on your car and something breaks I bet all bets are off on having warranty fix it. But hey . . . go for those bragging' rights!!!

[Littlestan]

It really seems like you are getting caught up in "is it possible". Yes. Is it practical or safe? No. Will you want to use this setup on even a semi regular basis ? I doubt it highly. It seems like you are missing out on major parts of the argument here. You sound pretty intelligent, and you have people that have towed much smaller, lighter trailers saying "our trailers push the limits of the car, you don't really want to do this", and you admitted yourself you have no experience towing anything with any vehicle, so I really don't understand this train of thought.

What is the purpose of doing this with a Mirage? You are not going to get good gas mileage, it will be very unstable/unsafe, and it is going to be VERY hard on the car. It's not a comfort/convenience thing, it's physics. Seriously, take that few hundred dollars from whatever upgrades you think will make this safe/possible and the uhaul test rental, buy some beat up, worn out, rusty pickup/car that weighs closer to 3000lbs than 2000lbs and has a longer wheelbase. Its a MUCH better idea if you have to have a trailer that size. If you go through with this, there is a 95% chance that you are going to say to yourself "man, that was a waste of time and money"

If you are doing it for bragging rights, all the power to ya, I just wouldn't want to be on the same stretch of road. I guess I don't really have anything else to say, just trying to caution you against doing something you will probably regret.

Thanks everyone for the concern, and believe me that this isn't about ego or bragging
rights... I'm simply trying to point out that the experiences everyone has had
with towing on the Mirage in this thread are completely different than the
towing experiences that many others have had in the world.

Every single towing experience in this thread have been with no upgraded rear/front
suspension/frame (ie. 'towing package') and no trailer brakes. I am listening intently
when people are saying 'my 500lb trailer is pushing the limits of what is safe'. I can
fully imagine that 500lbs pushing you around from the rear is a bit dangerous and
high caution is suggested doing it.

Fellas, we're talking about 1400lbs braked. Not 1400lbs unbraked. The trailer has the ability to stop
itself. Meaning little weight is pushing you around. An officer at Transport Canada came out and said what I was suggesting to do
seemed perfectly reasonable under the previously mentioned specific towing conditions.

I'm not planning on going cross country. I'm not planning on flying around at
break neck speed. I am planning on doing short trips on the flat highway at 100km/h
and occasional trips across town. I don't have any illusions that it's underpowered, but I do
think it will get up to speed in an acceptable amount of time.

If I do end up going through with it I'll start a new thread painstakingly documenting
the process and whether or not it works safely.

Thanks again. :-)