Rear Wheel Misaligned? (UPDATE: some rear axles out of spec; warranty replacement)

[Cani Lupine]

It's meant to reduce the chance of oversteer while driving on wet corners, but understeer can be just as dangerous, especially on cars already prone to understeer.

For example, new tires on the rear of a nose-heavy FWD would have this car involved in a head-on collision, because it would understeer into the oncoming lane:

[cyclopathic]

It's a good reminder to rotate your tires at every oil change. That way you can just keep one schedule for basic services and not have to remember to do it separately. It's ideal to have all 4 tires wear evenly then replace them with another set of 4, since having two new and two used will give you unbalanced traction. Don't even get me started on the whole "you must install new tires on the rear" BS for a nose-heavy FWD.

My biggest beef with "rotate for even wear" philosophy that were we live winter tires are not justified, and by luck you end up replacing tires in the fall, which could have gone through the summer for at least 10K. At least with 2 tire strategy you have an option to rotate, or if you have to replace you only replace 2. I have rotated worn rear tires to front at the beginning of the summer to get 100% of of them by November.

Of course if you have alignment issues this throws monkey wrench into your gear.

And better tires in the rear on FWD is total b.s. Even on RWD I'd rather have car brake and steer than accelerate. Maybe for drag strip, snow, mud or sand, or perhaps for 2WD pickup truck.

Edit: sorry missed the part on oversteer.

Most of the cars nowadays are designed to understeer, especially Toyotas. Mirage is more neutral in this respect, but put grippier tire and it will understeer still. You have to use handbrake if you want rear to swing around :-D

[TheTransporter]

I can flick my mirage no trouble and get it to oversteer (back end swings out) with blizzacks front and rear.

Very fun! But rwd woulf be better.

[Cani Lupine]

The excessive toe-in on these cars would definitely add to the understeer. If you want to make a car tailhappy, give that rear end some toe-out.

[cyclopathic]

The excessive toe-in on these cars would definitely add to the understeer. If you want to make a car tailhappy, give that rear end some toe-out.

I had front toe-out to 1/8" on my C and while the grip was great I end up going back to 0. Why? MPG was part of it but more importantly it let me get 100% out of tire. There was no warning when it would loose. Great for autoX but not for daily drive. Now this is for MacPherson front, not sure what optimum setting is for twist beam rear. Has to be 0 for MPG

[91cavgt]

I just got back from my local Mitsubishi dealer to get the rear end checked out on my Mirage. Sure enough, the rear alignment is out of spec. The service adviser told me that Mitsubishi knows there is a problem with some of the Mirage's and are working on a fix. He told me that he had sent the info on my car up to Mitsubishi and is now waiting on a response from them as to what to do next. So now I wait for a phone call.

Kudos go to Jubilee Mitsubishi in Waco, Texas for not giving me the run around and being up front with their customers. Did my Mirageforum.com sticker on the back window help? Who knows, but it sure couldn't have hurt!




I am willing to bet that Mitsubishi will sooner or later issue a TSB for the rear axle on the Mirage. I don't think it will be a recall because it is not a safety item like an air bag or brakes.

[mpaton]

Is anyone who's done the adjustment with a chain or cable pulling the stub axles closer together able to measure the amount of tension they had to apply to get the correct toe? This could be done with a spring or fish scale; although you might need one for a biggish fish.

[cyclopathic]

Is anyone who's done the adjustment with a chain or cable pulling the stub axles closer together able to measure the amount of tension they had to apply to get the correct toe? This could be done with a spring or fish scale; although you might need one for a biggish fish.

You are kidding, right? You are looking at several hundred pounds of force.

[mpaton]

You are kidding, right? You are looking at several hundred pounds of force.

I'm just describing a type of force measurement people will understand. If I'd said warehouse scales, would that have helped. They look just like fish scales but go to 500lbs.

Anyway, why do you say several hundred pounds of force? Have you made this adjustment, and estimated the force in some way?

[GrnBn]

So everyone, I've got an update on my Green Bean with this whole “rear axle misalignment” issue. The Green Bean had to get a new rear axle! Luckily, it was fully warrantied, and I had no out of pocket costs associated with it. TL;DR at the bottom, for those who are lazy.

It started with some weirdly uneven tire wear, plus a wobbly sensation at highway speeds(65+). I brought the car in, and was told by the service advisor that I needed all new tires! That was unacceptable, as I had just got new tires four months prior. The service advisor was totally dismissive, trying to say I hadn't rotated often enough (every oil change?) and that I had accrued a lot of miles in between rotations(10k?). I told him that was an unacceptable answer, and that I suspected an alignment issue. I mentioned this thread, then at 40+ pages. They checked my alignment, and sure enough it was out of spec in several ways. The excessive rear toe and excessive cross-camber were, in my mind, entirely to blame for the premature consumption of my tires.

They offered to try and shift the rear beam a bit, to see if that would bring me into OEM spec. I ended up waiting at the dealership for over 3 hours while they partially unbolted and shifted the entire rear suspension, only to see the final alignment sheet was still out of spec! I was not happy, and the service advisor was again totally dismissive of the problem. He had the gall to tell me that a four-month lifespan for tires was perfectly reasonable, and that tires were a wear/consumable item, something I should expect to replace regularly. I was getting pretty irritated, and told him I wanted to escalate the situation because he was clearly not listening to me. He acted very unprofessionally, and I didn't want to lose my temper because he was bad at his job. I told him I highly doubted he bought new tires for his car every four months, and that I also doubted even higher performance cars like the Evo were expected to go through tires in that time-frame. He gave me the service department managers contact information, but by this time the dealership was closing so I wouldn't be able to follow up on this until the next business day.

I left the dealership less than impressed, only to get onto the highway going home and discover the wobble sensation hadn't been alleviated whatsoever! I was irate. I pulled over, and figuratively blew up the dealership's phone until I got an answer. I explained my car had just left their shop without the issue I had initially brought it in for being fixed, that I was pulled over on the shoulder of the highway, and that I was pissed. After trying to tell me the service advisor had left already, I said I wanted the contact info for their regional corporate rep. This instead got me the actual manager of the dealership, who was incredibly helpful and definitely salvaged my opinion of the business. He asked me what solution I had in mind. I angrily made what was probably not the most reasonable of demands; that I be given a loaner that WAS safe at highway speeds, that they keep the Green Bean until it was repaired UNDER WARRANTY at NO COST to me, and that I could expect no further contact with them until my car was ready to drive. He said they would do what they could, and to come back to get a loaner car. I was pretty nonplussed at this point, because I had expected more push-back on the matter.

I returned the Mirage, and got a nice AWD Outback loaner car with only ~1300 miles on it. The dealership's manager told me they were very sorry I had a bad experience with the advisor, that he was incorrect in asserting that four months was a reasonable tire life, and that they would do anything they could to fix the problem. I got a call the next day from the service department's manager, saying that they had performed a more thorough alignment check and confirmed my specs were out. I already knew this, and was not thrilled to hear the same thing repeated back to me like it was news. I told them I had never been given an alignment sheet in the past, and that if they had known this car was out of spec when I came in four months prior that I should have been notified then and my options discussed. He agreed, and said they would see what could be done to redress the issue. After a brief hold, the dealership's manager got on the phone with me. He said that, to offset my expenses so far, they would give me an upgraded alloy wheel package that came with new 14in x 6in tires. I had been oogling that wheel/tire package in the dealership, and I guess he had noticed. I was happily surprised to say the least, but didn't want this to be considered an acceptable solution to the axle/alignment issue. He assured me that this was not the intent, that they had taken pictures of the axle and tires for the regional rep, and that it looked like Mitsu would cover the repair or replacement under warranty. YAY!

Three days after bringing the car in, I received a call saying the axle replacement was done, and that I could come get my beloved Green Bean back! Everything was warrantied at no cost to me. I made sure to get a printout of the alignment, and it was within spec for all values. Having already logged ~1500 miles since then, the car has been way more stable feeling, which I attribute to the reasonable alignment values combined with the wider tires. The manager of the dealership definitely recovered me as a happy customer, and when I last left we were joking about replacing my SO's dying Hyundai with another Mirage.(I'll make sure to have an alignment test be part of the purchase, though.) Given all of this, I would feel comfortable adding Leith Mitsubishi of Raleigh to a list of “good dealerships”.

TL;DR- ****ty service advisor tried to blow me off on four month old tires being worn out, I lost my cool but everything worked out. For those of you with alignment issues, definitely mention this thread! I told everyone involved I had no problems printing all 40+ pages for the regional rep if it was necessary, and that I felt suspicious I hadn't previously been given a printout of my alignment values. Always get that in hand before leaving! Mitsubishi will warranty the axle if you stick to your guns and make it clear you consider this a “known issue”, not just you complaining about some quirk with your vehicle.