iturnitoff Sticker

[uheym]

Found something interesting from tech insider a couple a days ago..

http://www.techinsider.io/do-you-nee...-winter-2015-2

Its actually a sticker fore the car, and i bought it.. So today it arrived after some days traveling from US to Europe.
I will properbly put it inside the cars back window as i dont want stickers on the car, but the idea is good to tell others that i drive GREEN

[BRagland]

While extensive is idling IS bad for the car, getting up and going immediately after starting it is even worse for the environment, for you, and for your wallet.

The idea of idling to warm the cabin of your car = bad.

The idea of letting it run for a minute or so to let oil circulate = good.

When it's 0 degrees outside, your oil is THICK, so thick (depending on grade) that it won't flow, literally, into the top portion of your engine (the valves) which just so happens to be, the part where wear occurs most often.

Giving your expensive engine a 30 second warm-up before pounding on it, will allow time for that thick molasses to move it's way up there, and start lubricating. That will in turn, save you money in the long run.

Now, those of you who idle for 15 minutes, it's unnecessary. But idling until the rpm drop, is generally a good idea. When it's cold, you'll notice the idle is higher, in my Mirage, I'm around 1500 rpm. After about 20 seconds, it drops to 750 rpm.

Here's what's happening: The ECM determines that it's cold as balls outside, and that the engine needs to warm before stress is induced. The Oxygen sensor is not working, and the oil flow is practically non-existent.

To compensate, the ECM decides that zero-load medium speed engine rpm will get the oil flowing, and heat the O2 sensor. Upon receiving something from the O2 sensor, and some oil flow, ECM turns idle down to normal.

This process usually takes 2-3 seconds when it's hot as balls, and 20-60 seconds when it's cold as balls. In extreme conditions, like when I was in the mountains 3 days ago, and it was in the deep-negatives Celsius (think -30), it took almost 2 minutes.

After those 2 minutes, I got up and went, albeit easy on the gas, but I was moving after that point.

In addition, the idea that 1 minute is equal to 1 mile is highly speculative, and is extremely dependent on engine size, tune, and specification. I'd reckon, in the mirage, we get something like 4-5 hours worth of idling, on one gallon of gas. Even in a large V8, I HIGHLY DOUBT that 1 minute is equal to 1 mile. That's pure bs.

The effective fill-rate of the engine at idle, is probably somewhere around ~25% (which is about average) and at 1,000 rpm, you're looking at about 0.5 to 1.0 liters of fuel per hour at idle. That's about 0.25 US gallons. Or, about 50-80 cents per hour at today's fuel prices.

Here's the math:

Air consumed will be:

displacement * cycles * volumetric efficiency * manifold air pressure

1.2L = 0.0012 m^3
Air density is 1.225 kg/m^3 * 0.25

This gives us:

0.0012 m^3 * 350/min * 100% * 1.225 kg/m^3 * 0.25

= 0.1286 kg/min

Fuel used would be 1/15 of that (actually 1/14.7 in stoichiometric conditions), or 0.00857 kg/min

with gasoline at 0.71-0.77 kg/L, that works out to 0.0065 L/min

0.0065 L/min is 0.427 L/hr, or 0.12 gal/hr

Now assume I'm wrong, and the engine is running at 50% load at idle, or your A/C is on, the light's are on, and the heater is blasting at max: 0.24 gal/hr or about 50-80 cents an hour at today's prices.

For our engine, you'll be doing yourself no justice warming it up for 20 minutes versus 30 seconds. Even so, be green.

[uheym]

Did not expect to get a message from my old fysics teacher :P
The math is not my idea of this, I only wanna show people that it's good to drive less fast, coast, and don't idle for hours when the car is warm/heated up

Actually in Copenhagen, idling more than 3 minutes can give you a Ticket but the Police don't really bother

[BRagland]

Exactly why I added this at bottom

For our engine, you'll be doing yourself no justice warming it up for 20 minutes versus 30 seconds.

For our cars, we certainly can idle less. 30 seconds or less is perfectly fine generally. No need to idle for 20 minutes.

I totally agree with you on encouraging others to take it slower, coast, and be more peaceful on the road. Aggressive driving causes far more pollution, and deaths, than idling does, and is all dependent on your foot. Not to mention, it costs a heck of a lot more to be aggressive on the roads.

[deleted user]

The oil in my Mirage is not 20w50 Castrol GTX. I might let my car run for a while before driving off if it was -40 (F or C both the same temp @ -40).

Done any flow tests of 0-20 synthetic recently?

It seldom goes below 15 F here. I start and go immediately.

I had a 1937 Ford that would produce 60 psi oil pressure after cranking for 5 seconds, after sitting for two weeks. No oil filter, check valves or anything else. The Mirage is producing good oil pressure and flow within a second of cranking the engine even if it does not start that quickly.

Been doing so for decades, beginning with the first EFI car I ever owned, a 1973 Alfa Romeo, which went 100k miles, from 58k until 158k without the valve lash changing, even .001 inch.

40 years ago.

regards
mech

[BRagland]

Most 0W Oils have a "Cold Cranking Viscosity" at, or around ~6200 mPa/s at, or around -35 centigrade. (Click link to verify).

1 millipascal-second = 0.01 gram per centimeter-second
1 mPa·s = 0.01 g/cm/s

That is equal to 62 grams, for every centimeter, second.

To give you an idea of how much oil that really is, or isn't. That's just barely below the viscosity of molasses at about room temperature ~ 23 degrees centigrade.

Molasses is usually anywhere between 5,000 and 10,000 mPa/s Verify here.

0w-20 weighted oils, at the extreme cold temperatures I was at earlier this week, quite literally was as thick as molasses for a few minutes there. Technically, just about as thick as the average molasses in my home.

And for technical reference, yes your ECM really does wait for the O2 sensor to start responding, and high oil pressure is indicative of thick, limited, flow. The ECM knows this. It will wait for the oil pressures to fall within an "acceptance band."

Pressures go up when things are thicker, and down when things are thinner. They will hit zero pressure with no oil, and top pressure when the oil is like squeezing jello through a pin-hole.

The oil in my Mirage is not 20w50 Castrol GTX. I might let my car run for a while before driving off if it was -40 (F or C both the same temp @ -40).

Done any flow tests of 0-20 synthetic recently?

It seldom goes below 15 F here. I start and go immediately.

I had a 1937 Ford that would produce 60 psi oil pressure after cranking for 5 seconds, after sitting for two weeks. No oil filter, check valves or anything else. The Mirage is producing good oil pressure and flow within a second of cranking the engine even if it does not start that quickly.

Been doing so for decades, beginning with the first EFI car I ever owned, a 1973 Alfa Romeo, which went 100k miles, from 58k until 158k without the valve lash changing, even .001 inch.

40 years ago.

regards
mech

[deleted user]

At -35 C the sewers here would freeze.

regards
mech

[BRagland]

At -35 C the sewers here would freeze.

regards
mech

Same here in NC. But it for sure get's this cold at night, at elevation, in dry / desert places. It's the most bitter thing I've ever experienced, and wish to never, ever, do it again. When it was that cold, 20 degrees F felt like it was burning hot outside. I never felt better.

I feel for the Canadians which go through this in the winter. Some places in Canada, get far far too cold.

Either way, the coldest it was on my trip recently, in Kansas, was something like -20 C (it was -2 F outside). Worst experience of my life. The car took quite some time to start. Scared me that it was going to start ha!

[Daox]

Got a picture of it on your car?

[uheym]

I have it inside on my front shield, as i don't want to put stickers on the car (Im going to take a picture soon)

Hmm, again im not able to get the picture in the right angle, it's a bit wierd ( And now i uploaded the picture for the second time? Dooh!) - The Yellow/Red sticker PAVA is a Anti Rust company