Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 25

Thread: E15 gasoline and how it might effect the Mitsubishi Mirage

  1. #11
    Senior Member Ares's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Houston
    Country
    United States
    Posts
    1,623
    Thanks
    22
    Thanked 119 Times in 81 Posts
    I was just in Germany and noticed they have 2 grades of ethanol. IIRC one is 15 and 10. Obviously 10 is more expensive. I can't imagine gas stations investing in another pump so maybe the new ones will have dedicate e15. Those who want cheaper gas can avail of it and those who want regular will avail the current regular.



  2. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Manitoba
    Country
    Canada
    Posts
    504
    Thanks
    179
    Thanked 92 Times in 63 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Cobrajet View Post
    Sheesh...we (and the world) can eat our corn, or we can burn it in our cars. We can't do both. More energy is used making and transporting ethanol than it saves when used as a motor fuel, not to mention the amount of potable water it requires. The ethanol mandate is a joke, and is really nothing more than a gift to the corn lobby to keep prices up. Wanna know how European cars get such good mileage? They are running 100% gasoline, not gasoline cut with vodka and a bunch of other crap.

    It was a neat idea, but it's time to abandon it.
    Agreed. I'm no expert, but I attended a university lecture/conference on this subject and all agreed that energy return on investment made ethanol a no go. Some further noted that not only is it bad economics, but it is also bad ethics, considering that there are people going hungry. If some of the yet unproven technologies of making ethanol from waste were to come on line the equation would change, but currently, putting petro-chemical fertilizer on farmland with diesel tractors, then shipping the crops by truck to be fermented in large plants is wasteful, bad for the economy, bad for the environment, and of course bad for people.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage SE 1.2 manual: 45.0 mpg (US) ... 19.1 km/L ... 5.2 L/100 km ... 54.1 mpg (Imp)


  3. #13
    Car Guru
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Waco, Texas
    Country
    United States
    Posts
    632
    Thanks
    156
    Thanked 175 Times in 118 Posts
    To those who don't know how much ethanol drops fuel economy, here is a good example. In early 2014 my wife and I took a road trip in her 2012 Honda Civic EX-L. I was driving the entire time and with implementing some minor hypermile techniques, the car was averaging 40 mpg. This was with E10 fuel. About 600 miles into our trip, we came across a gas station that sold pure gas (no ethanol, or E0). So we filled up and got back on the highway. When we filled up again, we had averaged 47 mpg!!


    The difference is due to the BTU (British Thermal Unit) content of the fuel. This is actually how much energy fuel has. 1 gallon of E85 has 73% to 83% of the energy of one gallon of gasoline(variation due to ethanol content in E85). Most people are reporting a drop of 25% to 30% when using E85 instead of E0 fuel. When using E10, it is quit common for people to see a 10% to 12% drop in fuel economy. So one could make a reasonable guess that fuel economy would drop an additional 3% to 5% when using E15 over E10.


    On a side note, I really wish I owned a turbocharged car again now that E85 is readily available.




    Reference;

    http://www.afdc.energy.gov/fuels/fue...ison_chart.pdf
    Certified holder of useless car knowledge.

  4. #14
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Mitsu
    Country
    United States
    Posts
    1,359
    Garage empty: add car
    Thanks
    256
    Thanked 314 Times in 245 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by 91cavgt View Post
    To those who don't know how much ethanol drops fuel economy, here is a good example. In early 2014 my wife and I took a road trip in her 2012 Honda Civic EX-L. I was driving the entire time and with implementing some minor hypermile techniques, the car was averaging 40 mpg. This was with E10 fuel. About 600 miles into our trip, we came across a gas station that sold pure gas (no ethanol, or E0). So we filled up and got back on the highway. When we filled up again, we had averaged 47 mpg!!

    The difference is due to the BTU (British Thermal Unit) content of the fuel. This is actually how much energy fuel has. 1 gallon of E85 has 73% to 83% of the energy of one gallon of gasoline(variation due to ethanol content in E85). Most people are reporting a drop of 25% to 30% when using E85 instead of E0 fuel. When using E10, it is quit common for people to see a 10% to 12% drop in fuel economy. So one could make a reasonable guess that fuel economy would drop an additional 3% to 5% when using E15 over E10.


    On a side note, I really wish I owned a turbocharged car again now that E85 is readily available.

    Reference;

    http://www.afdc.energy.gov/fuels/fue...ison_chart.pdf
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density
    The difference between in energy content between e0 and e10 is ~3%, 34.2 vs 33.18, there must have been something else going on.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage DE 1.2 manual: 46.4 mpg (US) ... 19.7 km/L ... 5.1 L/100 km ... 55.7 mpg (Imp)


  5. #15
    Car Guru
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Waco, Texas
    Country
    United States
    Posts
    632
    Thanks
    156
    Thanked 175 Times in 118 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by cyclopathic View Post
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density
    The difference between in energy content between e0 and e10 is ~3%, 34.2 vs 33.18, there must have been something else going on.

    Even though there is only a 3% difference in BTU content, the average real world drop in fuel economy with E10 is at least 10% even though the EPA claims it would be much less of a drop. I don't think anyone really knows why fuel economy drops so much. But I think we can all agree that just because something is engineered on paper to show it will work great, when you get into the real world it doesn't always work the way it is supposed to.


    Don't get me wrong, I am not against ethanol. Much like the consensus here, I think our government went about it wrong and should find alternative ways of making ethanol than using corn, but like already posted I think ethanol is a great way to help decrease our dependency on fossil fuels. It would also be nice if auto manufactures would actually program the computers to be able to run effectively on different blends of gasoline with ethanol.
    Certified holder of useless car knowledge.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Cobrajet's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Olympia, WA
    Country
    United States
    Posts
    2,537
    Thanks
    950
    Thanked 1,408 Times in 857 Posts
    Per Wikipedia...

    "Ethanol fuel has a "gasoline gallon equivalency" (GGE) value of 1.5 US gallons (5.7 L), which means 1.5 gallons of ethanol produces the energy of one gallon of gasoline.[3]"

    The total energy content of ethanol is only one component of how it reacts as a motor fuel in an internal combustion engine. Ethanol is far less explosive than gasoline...it burns much slower. Ethanol in gasoline actually raises the overall octane rating of the fuel for this very reason. This is one of the reasons that, despite there only being a 3% difference in total energy between E10 and E0, the behavior of the ethanol when burned is not the same as that of gasoline. Thus the 10%-ish drop in mpg most people report.

    A less explosive fuel is a drawback when the rapidity and force of the explosion is what drives the piston down.

    The ECM mapping of the engine can be changed to accommodate large quantities of ethanol...as is done with E85-rated engines...but the less explosive nature of ethanol still makes it only a mediocre motor fuel. The more ethanol that replaces gasoline, the more of it you will need to move your car. Simple as that.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Cani Lupine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Bristow, VA
    Country
    United States
    Posts
    590
    Thanks
    20
    Thanked 195 Times in 107 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Cobrajet View Post
    The more ethanol that replaces gasoline, the more of it you will need to move your car. Simple as that.
    Apparently the government doesn't understand that, as they keep pushing automakers to build cars out of Unobtainium. Efficency of fuels is going down at the same time they're demanding higher fuel economy numbers. The math just doesn't work.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage DE 1.2 manual: 49.2 mpg (US) ... 20.9 km/L ... 4.8 L/100 km ... 59.1 mpg (Imp)


  8. #18
    Senior Member Cobrajet's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Olympia, WA
    Country
    United States
    Posts
    2,537
    Thanks
    950
    Thanked 1,408 Times in 857 Posts
    Agreed.

    An engine can be made to run quite well on 100% gasoline or 100% alcohol. But trying to engineer it to run equally efficiently on some varied combination of the two is very difficult.

    The EPA is an incredibly doctrinaire organization, mostly run by zealots, and is little concerned with how auto makers comply with their latest edicts. As long as they do. It's up to manufacturers to figure out the actual physics of EPA compliance, which is not always entirely possible.

    "By the year 2025, all cars sold in the US are required to run on a mixture of no less than 25% unobtanium dioxide, 60% hemp oil, and 15% pixie dust." Yes...they just make these kinds of declarations!

    Ask Volkswagen how reasonable the EPA is...

  9. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Country
    United States
    Posts
    318
    Thanks
    20
    Thanked 163 Times in 72 Posts
    The owners manual for my mirage says not to use more than E20 in it. E15 will be fine. Other cars on the road... not so sure...

  10. #20
    Car Guru
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Waco, Texas
    Country
    United States
    Posts
    632
    Thanks
    156
    Thanked 175 Times in 118 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinker1980 View Post
    The owners manual for my mirage says not to use more than E20 in it. E15 will be fine. Other cars on the road... not so sure...
    What year model do you have? My 2014 model states e10 is ok but e15 is not.


    Certified holder of useless car knowledge.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •