Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: camber problems front wheels

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Netherlands
    Country
    Netherlands
    Posts
    175
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 20 Times in 17 Posts

    camber problems front wheels

    After changing front tyres the steering wheel was off quite a bit to the left. I thought that it would be a simple alignment job, although I cannot see how a simple tyre change could cause this. The alignment revealed that the left side had positive camber and the right side negative camber. This could not be adjusted. The alignment could be adjusted and the steering wheel centered. The car drives OK (but did that all along, except for the sudden off center steering wheel). Also the old front tyres wore evenly and lasted 35000 km. No problems there too.

    Camber values left front were +0.13, right front -0.37, resulting in an out of spec difference of 0.50. Wheels, tyres and suspension have been visually checked, but no damage could be seen. Tolerance is -0.30 to +0.30.

    Mystery 1: How can a steering wheel get off by changing tyres?
    Mystery 2: What could have caused the camber difference as I am the only driver of the car and I had no accident or mishaps at all.
    Mystery 3: Could the guy who drove the car and changed the tyres had a mishap of some sort resulting in a "non visual damage" He took it for a short test drive after he put on the new tyres to reset the tyre inflation control system. Tyres were changed at a Mitsubishi dealership in Germany (I live in Holland).

    The guy doing the alignment said that he only saw these values if the car was not completely well repaired after some sort of crash, but honestly I never had a crash and I own the car from new. The Dutch dealer says if the car drives well (and it does) I should not worry.

    My thought is that the front camber difference between right and left must have been out of spec from new, but it only came to light after the front tyres were changed (steering wheel suddenly off center). As said, before and after tyre change the car drove well.

    So, do we have another item that wheel alignment are out of spec after the rear axle problem, now in the front, that cannot be corrected?

    By the way, all other values were well within spec all along, even my rear axle values were very good.


    Last edited by RodeRoNL; 07-25-2016 at 11:42 AM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member MightyMirageMpg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    wi
    Country
    United States
    Posts
    760
    Thanks
    457
    Thanked 318 Times in 203 Posts
    if the rims were siezed on the car he might of been beating on the thing or stressing it abnormally somehow. here in USA I've seen shops use high-lift bumper jacks too spread and pop rims free. if he didn't have the correct tools he might of went too a suspension component.

    I'm not sure how much play there is, but if you were too loosen the LOWER strut bolts, and push in, this effectively adjust camber. i once CAUSED an extremely bad shake from bumps from not pushing the spindle on the top when tightening the bolts on a 91 dynasty (had positive camber). far stretch from a mirage but the mechanics are the same.... (its usually adjusted using top slotted holes or oblong washers which mirage does not have)


    granted your limited too the slop in the holes adjustment but its better than nothing, and 1° is still 1°

    before centering the wheel check your tire psi in all 4 corners and get whatever negative camber you can.... check your tires for scuffs that'll tell you if he hit something, take hubcaps off @ look. double check all 4 tires are the same size and don't discount a bad tire. this wouldn't cause your camber issue but could offset your wheel if it was made wrong.
    throw another set f rims/tires on it and test run or rotate what you have see if any difference on wheel

    the shop told you too go pound sand??
    Last edited by MightyMirageMpg; 07-25-2016 at 12:51 PM.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Top_Fuel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Ohio
    Country
    United States
    Posts
    3,699
    Thanks
    2,582
    Thanked 2,537 Times in 1,471 Posts
    You might want to check out some of the camber info in this thread...

    Is the camber adjustable on a Mirage?

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 52.2 mpg (US) ... 22.2 km/L ... 4.5 L/100 km ... 62.6 mpg (Imp)


  4. The Following User Says Thank You to Top_Fuel For This Useful Post:

    Eggman (07-26-2016)

  5. #4
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Mitsu
    Country
    United States
    Posts
    1,359
    Garage empty: add car
    Thanks
    256
    Thanked 315 Times in 246 Posts
    The 0.5 difference between left and right is intended to compensate for road crown. With respect to left side being positive, it could be due to stand tilt. I have seen up to 0.5 degree difference due to this, but when you use the same stand the readings should be consistent.

    BTW camber can be adjusted with a set of 12mm camber bolts, they go for $10-20 on Amazon.

    Pull is likely due to tire, check pressure and rotate to se if it makes any difference good luck

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage DE 1.2 manual: 46.4 mpg (US) ... 19.7 km/L ... 5.1 L/100 km ... 55.7 mpg (Imp)


  6. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Country is Europe, state is Germany
    Country
    Germany
    Posts
    1,713
    Thanks
    234
    Thanked 1,158 Times in 670 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by RodeRoNL View Post
    Camber values left front were +0.13, right front -0.37, resulting in an out of spec difference of 0.50. Wheels, tyres and suspension have been visually checked, but no damage could be seen. Tolerance is -0.30 to +0.30.
    By the way, all other values were well within spec all along, even my rear axle values were very good.

    What I would do:

    Jack up the right side, take off the wheel, loosen the two bolts holding the strut to the knuckle by about two turns, and then pull the bottom of the strut outward, and keep it in that position while retightening the two bolts. (Note: There should be about 1/3° camber movement possible with those bolts loose, because the holes in strut and knuckle have a larger diameter than the bolts, and thus a bit of camber-changing movement is possible.) Put wheel back on. Now after changing camber, the toe-in on the right wheel will have become too positive, and has to be adjusted.
    Camber will likely be OK and within specs.
    Alignment specialists usually are reluctant to do this method, because it is a bit more work and doesn't call for any parts to be sold to the customer at a profit...

    The ultimate goal is to have a similar amount of camber (sturtz in NL?) on both wheels, and both within acceptable range, rather than one wheel positive and the other negative. I personally prefer a neutral camber (0°) and neutral toe-in, which saves tyres and fuel, but that's very much debatable and i don't want to poke in a hornets nest by starting a new discussion.
    Last edited by foama; 07-26-2016 at 08:27 PM.

  7. #6
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Mitsu
    Country
    United States
    Posts
    1,359
    Garage empty: add car
    Thanks
    256
    Thanked 315 Times in 246 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by foama View Post
    What I would do:

    Jack up the right side, take off the wheel, loosen the two bolts holding the strut to the knuckle by about two turns, and then pull the bottom of the strut outward, and keep it in that position while retightening the two bolts. (Note: There should be about 1/3° camber movement possible with those bolts loose, because the holes in strut and knuckle have a larger diameter than the bolts, and thus a bit of camber-changing movement is possible.) Put wheel back on. Now after changing camber, the toe-in on the right wheel will have become too positive, and has to be adjusted.
    Camber will likely be OK and within specs.
    Alignment specialists usually are reluctant to do this method, because it is a bit more work and doesn't call for any parts to be sold to the customer at a profit...

    The ultimate goal is to have a similar amount of camber (sturtz in NL?) on both wheels, and both within acceptable range, rather than one wheel positive and the other negative. I personally prefer a neutral camber (0°) and neutral toe-in, which saves tyres and fuel, but that's very much debatable and i don't want to poke in a hornets nest by starting a new discussion.
    The 0/0 gives you the best MPG, and many new cars come set like this or with slight toe-in for stability under breaking.

    In countries which drive on right side of the road road surface is tilt to the right, q d car with 0 cross-camber wouid be drifting to right. To compensate the standard practice is reduce negative camber on left side by 0.3-0.5 degree.

    US spec cars are usually setup with horrendous understeer for legal reasons, bigger front sway bars, removing rears, softer springs are the norm. Installing camber kit with additional -1.5degree of negative camber helps to address it

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage DE 1.2 manual: 46.4 mpg (US) ... 19.7 km/L ... 5.1 L/100 km ... 55.7 mpg (Imp)


  8. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Netherlands
    Country
    Netherlands
    Posts
    175
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 20 Times in 17 Posts

    thank you!

    Quote Originally Posted by foama View Post
    What I would do:

    Jack up the right side, take off the wheel, loosen the two bolts holding the strut to the knuckle by about two turns, and then pull the bottom of the strut outward, and keep it in that position while retightening the two bolts. (Note: There should be about 1/3° camber movement possible with those bolts loose, because the holes in strut and knuckle have a larger diameter than the bolts, and thus a bit of camber-changing movement is possible.) Put wheel back on. Now after changing camber, the toe-in on the right wheel will have become too positive, and has to be adjusted.
    Camber will likely be OK and within specs.
    Alignment specialists usually are reluctant to do this method, because it is a bit more work and doesn't call for any parts to be sold to the customer at a profit...

    The ultimate goal is to have a similar amount of camber (sturtz in NL?) on both wheels, and both within acceptable range, rather than one wheel positive and the other negative. I personally prefer a neutral camber (0°) and neutral toe-in, which saves tyres and fuel, but that's very much debatable and i don't want to poke in a hornets nest by starting a new discussion.
    Thanks a lot, I will keep this in mind and discuss it with my dealer when the car gets its 40.000 km service in September. By the way, camber is called "wielvlucht" in Dutch (litterally the fly path of the wheel).

  9. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Netherlands
    Country
    Netherlands
    Posts
    175
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 20 Times in 17 Posts
    Thanks! I will try to go for 0 camber or maybe slightly negative if possible. However, as the car drives and steers well now, I am not in a hurry. The point of my posting was that I had three mysteries that I could not solve and that I suspect that Mitsubishi is not very precise in making the suspension of the Mirage, both front and rear.

  10. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Netherlands
    Country
    Netherlands
    Posts
    175
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 20 Times in 17 Posts
    Wheels have been changed from left to right, but no effect. I will discuss this with my dealer as I do not have the knowledge nor facilities to work on my suspension. Thanks mate!

  11. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Netherlands
    Country
    Netherlands
    Posts
    175
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 20 Times in 17 Posts
    Thanks, I did look, but not good enough, so it seems. for that, I have you, haha.



Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •