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Thread: Is the CVT really more efficient than the manual transmission?

  1. #51
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    Back in the day, some of the nicer minibikes had a two pulley setup that worked the same as the CVT system. Most of the lower end bikes just used the chattering, centrifugal clutch system.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Fuel View Post
    Well...I can't answer that. But I can tell you which one costs less at the parts counter.

    Attachment 8250
    4 grand for that little transmission!!!

    Can you put in a manual one if your CVT breaks?

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage 1.2 automatic: 39.7 mpg (US) ... 16.9 km/L ... 5.9 L/100 km ... 47.6 mpg (Imp)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Can you put in a manual one if your CVT breaks?
    You probably could, but there's more involved than just swapping the hardware. You've got wiring harnesses and the computer modules set up for a CVT. It would probably be more hassle than it's worth.

    The good news is that there seems to be a steady supply of Mirages in salvage yards (well...maybe that's not a good way to say it ). A low-mileage used CVT only costs about $1,000.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 52.2 mpg (US) ... 22.2 km/L ... 4.5 L/100 km ... 62.6 mpg (Imp)


  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    4 grand for that little transmission!!!

    Can you put in a manual one if your CVT breaks?
    It wouldn't be worth it. At one point I considered converting my Chevrolet from an automatic to a manual, but the amount of parts and labour would have cost thousands...almost more than the car is worth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Fuel View Post
    You probably could, but there's more involved than just swapping the hardware. You've got wiring harnesses and the computer modules set up for a CVT. It would probably be more hassle than it's worth.

    The good news is that there seems to be a steady supply of Mirages in salvage yards (well...maybe that's not a good way to say it ). A low-mileage used CVT only costs about $1,000.
    I wonder if you can get used CVTs from Japan. I replaced my automatic transmission for my Nissan pickup a few years ago. It was a pretty good deal. Apparently due to a steep tax on owning used cars Japanese owners tend to trade them in frequently.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage 1.2 automatic: 39.7 mpg (US) ... 16.9 km/L ... 5.9 L/100 km ... 47.6 mpg (Imp)


  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by ecoboxer View Post
    some users here have tested both and achieved better MPG with the manual. But, those tests were performed by skilled eco drivers using the most fuel efficient driving possible.
    It's not necessary to use extreme driving techniques to exceed the official MPG rating of a manual-equipped Mirage: you only need to do one thing, and that is upshift to the highest usable gear for your road speed.

    The Mirage will happily cruise in top gear at 50 km/k = 30 mph (or less) on level ground. But the EPA test procedure prohibits doing this because the dyno test pilots must up-shift and down-shift at predetermined speeds during testing (for repeatability). They are not eco-friendly shift points.

    Shift points: EPA testing of manual transmissions (why beating MT ratings is easier)


    Because of this, it will always be easier to beat the EPA rating by a bigger margin with a manual car than with an automatic. (And if you throw in a number of other manual-transmission hypermiling technques, the gap will be even bigger.)

    And if you need more power... downshift!

    In terms of regular daily driving which may occasionally require going fast, which one wins?
    The manual will win, provided you don't drive around in 3rd gear all the time (see above).

    "Warm-up hit"

    Here's another thing to consider since you're in Canada (or for anyone who lives where it gets cold for a big chunk of the year):

    Automatic transmissions suffer from a "warm-up hit" to fuel economy that is much bigger than with manual transmissions: the computer prevents the CVT from using its "highest gear" until coolant temp (and possibly transmission temp) passes a certain threshold. So fuel consumption is going to be even worse than a manual until things have warmed up.

    Using a block heater will reduce the warm-up hit a bit. (But it will also improve a manual's cold-weather MPG.)

    ---

    If you don't have an aversion to shifting, get the manual.

    Please don't be our 2nd member who freaks out after buying a CVT and then learning the manual delivers better real world MPG on his actual commute. (He traded the CVT for a manual after going back to the dealer and trying one on the same route. Considering how small the difference was, not the smartest thing I've seen.)

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 63.2 mpg (US) ... 26.9 km/L ... 3.7 L/100 km ... 75.9 mpg (Imp)


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    Manuals are getting more and more difficult to find! Sadly!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ecoboxer View Post
    The EPA ratings say the CVT gets better mileage than the manual, but some users here have tested both and achieved better MPG with the manual. But, those tests were performed by skilled eco drivers using the most fuel efficient driving possible.

    In terms of regular daily driving which may occasionally require going fast, which one wins? Will the manual only win if the driver really focuses on driving efficiently? Which one gets better highway mileage at 100km/h?
    I test drove both and achieved slightly better mileage with the manual transmission.
    2014 White SE with CVT

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    watching the real mpg on our 2 the manual beats the CVT even on the highway but if you get an area of open flat land and cruise 60-62mpg without traffic the cvt a few times been better which negates when hills, entrances, exits, and traffic come into play

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    Quote Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
    It's not necessary to use extreme driving techniques to exceed the official MPG rating of a manual-equipped Mirage: you only need to do one thing, and that is upshift to the highest usable gear for your road speed.

    The Mirage will happily cruise in top gear at 50 km/k = 30 mph (or less) on level ground. But the EPA test procedure prohibits doing this because the dyno test pilots must up-shift and down-shift at predetermined speeds during testing (for repeatability). They are not eco-friendly shift points.

    Shift points: EPA testing of manual transmissions (why beating MT ratings is easier)


    Because of this, it will always be easier to beat the EPA rating by a bigger margin with a manual car than with an automatic. (And if you throw in a number of other manual-transmission hypermiling technques, the gap will be even bigger.)

    And if you need more power... downshift!



    The manual will win, provided you don't drive around in 3rd gear all the time (see above).

    "Warm-up hit"

    Here's another thing to consider since you're in Canada (or for anyone who lives where it gets cold for a big chunk of the year):

    Automatic transmissions suffer from a "warm-up hit" to fuel economy that is much bigger than with manual transmissions: the computer prevents the CVT from using its "highest gear" until coolant temp (and possibly transmission temp) passes a certain threshold. So fuel consumption is going to be even worse than a manual until things have warmed up.

    Using a block heater will reduce the warm-up hit a bit. (But it will also improve a manual's cold-weather MPG.)

    ---

    If you don't have an aversion to shifting, get the manual.

    Please don't be our 2nd member who freaks out after buying a CVT and then learning the manual delivers better real world MPG on his actual commute. (He traded the CVT for a manual after going back to the dealer and trying one on the same route. Considering how small the difference was, not the smartest thing I've seen.)
    That's interesting, my CVT does indeed used up about 2 MPG more than I drive it in summer, although i'm not sure how much of those were contributed by winter tires.



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