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Thread: How to prevent paying $$$ for needing to prematurely replace a key transponder

  1. #11
    Senior Member Wallythacker's Avatar
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    My 2014 keys don't have a transponder chip and I took them apart very carefully on the counter in a bucket so nothing could roll away. I've opened up 3 2014 keys in total and they all have a large red bulky component that fills the plastic void but no separate chip of any sort. I don't even see a battery that could be changed.


    Zero, 2014 ES Plus 5MT, written off but not forgotten.
    Zero II, 2014 SE, 5MT, climate She's HOME now!
    Shelby AKA "Cute", 2017 ES 5MT, A/C.

    Mirage owners look at the world differently than everyone else, but in a better way
    We're driving the Beetle of the 21st century, the greatest small car now available!

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2017 Mirage ES PLus 1.2 manual: 39.0 mpg (US) ... 16.6 km/L ... 6.0 L/100 km ... 46.8 mpg (Imp)


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    Moderator Eggman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallythacker View Post
    My 2014 keys don't have a transponder chip and I took them apart very carefully on the counter in a bucket so nothing could roll away. I've opened up 3 2014 keys in total and they all have a large red bulky component that fills the plastic void but no separate chip of any sort. I don't even see a battery that could be changed.
    Ever pay attention to card access systems for buildings? Some you gotta swipe (like a credit card) others you just present the card near the card reader - those are called proximity cards.

    The pair (card & reader) use induction, similar to a transformer with two windings - a primary & secondary. The card reader acts as the source of energy by inducing an electrical current into the antenna of the card. Once the card is presented within the proximity of the operating range of the reader it will wake up the tiny tiny little chip embedded between the layers of the card, and that little chip transmits it's signal to the reader. The reader may either decide itself whether to unlock the door, or send the code to a central database for the unlock decision.

    It's just a guess, but I'm guessing you are looking at similar technology, Wallythacker. But I strongly doubt that your Mirage key does not have a transponder chip. Just can't tell from here... Here's a fun experiment that won't cost me a dime - have a new blank key cut and tell us it it'll start your Mirage haha.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 49.6 mpg (US) ... 21.1 km/L ... 4.7 L/100 km ... 59.5 mpg (Imp)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Eggman View Post
    It's just a guess, but I'm guessing you are looking at similar technology, Wallythacker. But I strongly doubt that your Mirage key does not have a transponder chip. Just can't tell from here... Here's a fun experiment that won't cost me a dime - have a new blank key cut and tell us it it'll start your Mirage haha.
    It only takes 24 pages in my 2017 Mirage owner's manual describe the types and functions of keys for a Mirage. I don't know what others think, but I find that to be a bit silly!

    I didn't look up the 2014-15 Mirages, but I would assume the 2017+ Mirages are the same. There are 3 key options for a Mirage. Simplest option would be for a car with manual door locks (no remote locking). It would still be a chipped key, however.

    Type 1
    2 - Keys with an the electronic immobilizer & a key number plate. There wouldn't be a need for a battery.

    Type 2
    2- Keys for the electronic immobilizer and keyless entry system & a key number plate. This would have a battery to operate the keyless entry system. A 2017+ ES, RF, or LE would have this type of key in the States.

    Type 3
    Two F.A.S.T.-keys, two emergency keys, & a key number plate. Found on the 2017+ SE & GT trim levels.
    Last edited by Mark; 12-01-2019 at 05:48 PM.

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    My Mirage has the type 2 key listed in the previous post. Since the key is a mechanical cut key, I could have a chipped key made at my local ACE Hardware store. My local store can't make laser cut keys. My Subaru has a laser cut key.

    Mechanical cut is carved out completely on both sides or one side the key. Laser cut key has an impression carved into the solid blank. It's harder to duplicate. You can look up the differences (mechanical cut vs. laser cut keys). Some hardware stores may have the equipment to make a laser cut key, but my local one doesn't.

    Thus, my local hardware store could make a type 1 key for me. It would allow me to open my door mechanically & start my car. They would program the chip in the key to my car. I believe the cost was about $50 last time I checked. I would lose my ability to use the remote locks with this key, however.

    I've investigated these things, because of driver education. We have to come up with ways for multiple instructors to share cars.
    Last edited by Mark; 12-01-2019 at 05:53 PM.

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    Senior Member Wallythacker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eggman View Post
    Ever pay attention to card access systems for buildings? Some you gotta swipe (like a credit card) others you just present the card near the card reader - those are called proximity cards.

    The pair (card & reader) use induction, similar to a transformer with two windings - a primary & secondary. The card reader acts as the source of energy by inducing an electrical current into the antenna of the card. Once the card is presented within the proximity of the operating range of the reader it will wake up the tiny tiny little chip embedded between the layers of the card, and that little chip transmits it's signal to the reader. The reader may either decide itself whether to unlock the door, or send the code to a central database for the unlock decision.

    It's just a guess, but I'm guessing you are looking at similar technology, Wallythacker. But I strongly doubt that your Mirage key does not have a transponder chip. Just can't tell from here... Here's a fun experiment that won't cost me a dime - have a new blank key cut and tell us it it'll start your Mirage haha.
    Oh I know a plain key will get me nowhere. That's a good description of how some systems work. I never gave my access cards any thought, as long as they worked I was content. Of course there's enough room in the Mirage key void for such circuitry. It does make it more difficult when trying to figure out a remote start system that's compatible with the Mirage. Heck, just figuring it out to use plain keys would be a great thing, to me at least.
    Zero, 2014 ES Plus 5MT, written off but not forgotten.
    Zero II, 2014 SE, 5MT, climate She's HOME now!
    Shelby AKA "Cute", 2017 ES 5MT, A/C.

    Mirage owners look at the world differently than everyone else, but in a better way
    We're driving the Beetle of the 21st century, the greatest small car now available!

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2017 Mirage ES PLus 1.2 manual: 39.0 mpg (US) ... 16.6 km/L ... 6.0 L/100 km ... 46.8 mpg (Imp)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallythacker View Post
    Oh I know a plain key will get me nowhere. That's a good description of how some systems work. I never gave my access cards any thought, as long as they worked I was content. Of course there's enough room in the Mirage key void for such circuitry. It does make it more difficult when trying to figure out a remote start system that's compatible with the Mirage. Heck, just figuring it out to use plain keys would be a great thing, to me at least.
    I don't have any experience with remote starters. Personally, I don't see the need for them. I believe aftermarket remote starters can be added to most any vehicle. My cousin's old Chevy Colorado with a chipped key has a remote start system added to it.

    Have you talked to professionals that install remote starter systems?

  7. #17
    Senior Member Wallythacker's Avatar
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    Ah Mark, it's on my list of things to investigate. I have two remote starter kits, BNIB. I remember winning one at some event but the second one I discovered is a mystery. I suspect it was in my deceased Dad's effects. They are only worth a couple hundred $$$ so it's not like thousands of $$$ are sitting collecting dust.
    Zero, 2014 ES Plus 5MT, written off but not forgotten.
    Zero II, 2014 SE, 5MT, climate She's HOME now!
    Shelby AKA "Cute", 2017 ES 5MT, A/C.

    Mirage owners look at the world differently than everyone else, but in a better way
    We're driving the Beetle of the 21st century, the greatest small car now available!

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2017 Mirage ES PLus 1.2 manual: 39.0 mpg (US) ... 16.6 km/L ... 6.0 L/100 km ... 46.8 mpg (Imp)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallythacker View Post
    Ah Mark, it's on my list of things to investigate. I have two remote starter kits, BNIB. I remember winning one at some event but the second one I discovered is a mystery. I suspect it was in my deceased Dad's effects. They are only worth a couple hundred $$$ so it's not like thousands of $$$ are sitting collecting dust.

    Being a bit ignorant on the subject - I thought the desire of people wanting remote starters was related to the push button start craze in many new cars.

    It's my understanding, aftermarket remote starters can work around all that. Once you enter your car you will still need to insert your key to drive off with the car. I think there is still hope for you in doing this. Obviously, a manual transmission would require you leaving your car in neutral when parked. Something I never do.

    Remote starters & heated seats are just things I would never use even if I had them. I like things kept simple on cars. If you already have these items, I don't blame you for checking it out more. I don't mean to sound judgmental. They are just features that I rather not have on my Mirage.
    Last edited by Mark; 12-01-2019 at 07:01 PM.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Wallythacker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    Being a bit ignorant on the subject - I thought the desire of people wanting remote starters was related to the push button start craze in many new cars.

    It's my understanding, aftermarket remote starters can work around all that. Once you enter your car you will still need to insert your key to drive off with the car. I think there is still hope for you in doing this. Obviously, a manual transmission would require you leaving your car in neutral when parked. Something I never do.

    Remote starters & heated seats are just things I would never use even if I had them. I like things kept simple on cars. If you already have these items, I don't blame you for checking it out more. I don't mean to sound judgmental. They are just features that I rather not have on my Mirage.
    I know back in the day your key was needed to unlock the steering and shifter before you drove off. Now? I don't know. I think you have to buy a module for your car brand before it will work.

    I have about 45 years of leaving my car in gear. That habit would be really hard to break. It goes against what I thnk is safe. As for gadgets, I had a take it or leave it view to heated seats. I must admit I quickly learned to like them on my first SE, I miss them on my ES and I'm glad to have them back on my 2nd SE. I realize I take AC for granted having it now for close to 40 years. It really is just a fancy gadget when you get down to it.


    Zero, 2014 ES Plus 5MT, written off but not forgotten.
    Zero II, 2014 SE, 5MT, climate She's HOME now!
    Shelby AKA "Cute", 2017 ES 5MT, A/C.

    Mirage owners look at the world differently than everyone else, but in a better way
    We're driving the Beetle of the 21st century, the greatest small car now available!

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2017 Mirage ES PLus 1.2 manual: 39.0 mpg (US) ... 16.6 km/L ... 6.0 L/100 km ... 46.8 mpg (Imp)


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