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Thread: WA State per mile tax versus gas tax

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    WA State per mile tax versus gas tax

    So, I just found out I am part of WA States pilot program. The program is looking at multiple options to track mileage and ultimately pay a per mile tax versus the current gas tax. Many other States including CA & OR are also investigating.

    Big driver is that cars are getting more fuel efficient, and the tax beast is nervous about getting fed.

    The frustrating thing for us Mirage owners is that our impact to the road is treated as equivalent to a Ford F350. Weight is no longer a factor. Tax is set to be neutral for a car getting about 20MPG which means Mirage owners will likely pay 2X more.

    I am happy to be part of the pilot to make sure WA State has a Mirage in the study.

    Here is a link for those curious
    https://www.drivesync.com/waruc/

    Thought I would share for all since it seems like this may become a popular way to tax in lots of areas.

    EDIT:
    Couple other thoughts...

    I think Insurance and Tech companies are pushing in the background because they want to piggyback on all the tracking info. As part of the pilot, my driving behavior will be tracked, and I am sure at some future point many players are pitching how to monitize all that data.


    Last edited by emdeplam; 02-15-2018 at 04:25 AM.

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    Senior Member Cobrajet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emdeplam View Post
    So, I just found out I am part of WA States pilot program. The program is looking at multiple options to track mileage and ultimately pay a per mile tax versus the current gas tax. Many other States including CA & OR are also investigating.

    Big driver is that cars are getting more fuel efficient, and the tax beast is nervous about getting fed.

    The frustrating thing for us Mirage owners is that our impact to the road is treated as equivalent to a Ford F350. Weight is no longer a factor. Tax is set to be neutral for a car getting about 20MPG which means Mirage owners will likely pay 2X more.

    I am happy to be part of the pilot to make sure WA State has a Mirage in the study.

    Here is a link for those curious
    https://www.drivesync.com/waruc/

    Thought I would share for all since it seems like this may become a popular way to tax in lots of areas.

    EDIT:
    Couple other thoughts...

    I think Insurance and Tech companies are pushing in the background because they want to piggyback on all the tracking info. As part of the pilot, my driving behavior will be tracked, and I am sure at some future point many players are pitching how to monitize all that data.
    I detest this Big Brother sh!t. Tax me for the fuel I purchase...how and where I burn it is none of the government's damned business. Washington already has the second highest gax tax IN THE COUNTRY. I don't know what they are whining about.

    What about truckers and other people coming here from different states? They are using our roads, but would be paying ZERO in taxes to my state when they fill up here.
    Last edited by Cobrajet; 02-15-2018 at 08:29 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobrajet View Post
    I detest this Big Brother sh!t. Tax me for the fuel I purchase...how and where I burn it is none of the government's damned business. Washington already has the second highest gax tax IN THE COUNTRY. I don't know what they are whining about.
    Cobrajet I understand what you're saying. It's pretty frustrating to have limits and restrictions placed on something as valuable as transit. The thing we need to be careful of here (on this forum) is how we treat and discuss this. This is an issue that can have an impact on the Mirage. I see this happening if weight is taken into consideration. If it were, I would expect less drivers would choose a heavy vehicle and more would choose a lighter vehicle instead to save some money.

    That being said, one thing I value here on this forum is a policy against political discussions. Sometimes I get sick of political opinions and just want to talk about a little car. I can see that this topic will become politically heated, and thus risk being shut down.

    Let's give this some time and space to see where the study goes. It may go nowhere - who knows. Maybe this tax proposal is definitely going to be enacted and this is the study used to base policy decisions on for the future. I'm interested in learning more about this and don't want the thread to become locked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cobrajet View Post
    What about truckers and other people coming here from different states? They are using our roads, but would be paying ZERO in taxes to my state when they fill up here.
    It's a problem all states face (well, maybe not Hawaii...) That's when legislature turns to the Federal level, creating an entirely new level of wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth. Just this morning I saw a news article title that mentioned an increase in the national gas tax. It doesn't surprise me as we already enjoy cheap gasoline compared to so many other countries.

    This could have a biiig impact on our favorite little car!
    Last edited by Eggman; 02-15-2018 at 08:38 AM.

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    Senior Member Cobrajet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eggman View Post
    Cobrajet I understand what you're saying. It's pretty frustrating to have limits and restrictions placed on something as valuable as transit. The thing we need to be careful of here (on this forum) is how we treat and discuss this. This is an issue that can have an impact on the Mirage. I see this happening if weight is taken into consideration. If it were, I would expect less drivers would choose a heavy vehicle and more would choose a lighter vehicle instead to save some money.

    That being said, one thing I value here on this forum is a policy against political discussions. Sometimes I get sick of political opinions and just want to talk about a little car. I can see that this topic will become politically heated, and thus risk being shut down.

    Let's give this some time and space to see where the study goes. It may go nowhere - who knows. Maybe this tax proposal is definitely going to be enacted and this is the study used to base policy decisions on for the future. I'm interested in learning more about this and don't want the thread to become locked.

    It's a problem all states face (well, maybe not Hawaii...) That's when legislature turns to the Federal level, creating an entirely new level of wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth. Just this morning I saw a news article title that mentioned an increase in the national gas tax. It doesn't surprise me as we already enjoy cheap gasoline compared to so many other countries.

    This could have a biiig impact on our favorite little car!
    I understand what you are saying, and am sorry if I breached any rules. To me, a 'political' discussion is something like, "Republicans are THIS! Oh, yeah? Well Democrats are THAT!" I didn't think I got anywhere near that line, but it may just be that I didn't know where the line was.

    If the only permissible response to a post like this is, "The government is considering putting a mandated GPS tracking device in my car to make things fair! Yay! I can't wait!" then you might as well lock the thread now.

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    Where's the leak ma'am? Marklovski's Avatar
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    I'd rather not get taxed and pay per mile on private roads. Its interesting though. Might benefit me because i dont drive as much as others.
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    Hi

    Reallly didn't want to make a political statement on this. It is a tax that lots of US states and other countries are looking at, and I am in the pilot NOT as a supporter, but out of curiosity with the tech involved.

    Why does this matter for the Mirage. If we think (simplified) of road wear as mileage x vehicle weight the Mirage has got to be an extreme.

    A lot of us purchased the Mirage in large part because of the economy it offers, and while certainly only a small part, changes to the gas tax savings in the future I thought would be important to think about.

    Plus I like this forum and never have much to contribute so my effort to share

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    State of Washington

    Gas Tax: 44.5 cents per gallon
    Use Tax: 02.4 cents per mile



    If you drive 20,000 miles a year and your Mirage gets 50mpg, you're buying 400 gallons of gas per year.

    Here are the annual taxes you would pay under each plan:

    Gas Tax: $178
    Use Tax: $480

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 51.4 mpg (US) ... 21.9 km/L ... 4.6 L/100 km ... 61.8 mpg (Imp)


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    Interesting. The proposed tax shift seems to discourage use of efficient vehicles, but a quick comparison seems to prove otherwise.

    Here is my situation. I drive few miles and have many vehicles but the sake of this argument, let's limit it to 3. I have an F150, a Mirage, and a 50 cc scooter.

    F150 Mirage Ruckus Total
    miles/yr 1000 4000 1500 6500
    mpg 12 38 80
    gallons gas / yr 83 105 19 207
    total gas $ / yr $208 $263 $47 $518 *A $2.50/g
    gas tax $40 $51 $9 $100 *B
    gas $ no tax $168 $212 $38 $418 *C
    alt $/m tax $24 $96 $36 $156 *D
    delta tax $(16) $45 $27 $56 *E
    Scenario 1 miles 610 4000 1890
    gas cost $117 $308 $93 $518 *F
    Scenario 2 miles 513 4487 1500
    gas cost $98 $346 $74 $518 *G
    Scenario 3 miles 1000 4983 517
    gas cost $74 $317 $127 $518 *H

    So, according to the row marked *A, at $2.50 / gallon I am paying $518 / yr for gas.

    You can see the difference in tax per vehicle from the gas tax to the proposed mile tax by reviewing row E.

    The question I had was how would I have to modify my driving habits to stay at the same tax rate.

    Row F shows that if I maintain 4000 miles on the Mirage, it adds mileage to the Ruckus and subtracts from the F150 to arrive at the same gas cost.

    Row G - fixed Ruckus mileage favors the Mirage to add miles.

    Row H - fixed F150 mileage favors the Mirage.

    It appears that the alternate tax structure still favors highly efficient vehicles, except for the 3rd case. Not sure why that happens.
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    At least for the pilot, the approach is as follows:
    "...for purposes of the road usage charge pilot, we will utilize a 2.4 cents per mile mock charge across all vehicles statewide, which is equivalent to what the average car (20.5 mpg) in our state currently pays under the 49.4 cent per gallon gas tax."

    So in theory if you currently get better mileage than 20.5 MPG you will pay more and if you get worse you will pay less per mile. I think this is the same structure that CA and OR are looking at as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 01-7700 View Post
    Interesting. The proposed tax shift seems to discourage use of efficient vehicles, but a quick comparison seems to prove otherwise.

    Here is my situation. I drive few miles and have many vehicles but the sake of this argument, let's limit it to 3. I have an F150, a Mirage, and a 50 cc scooter.

    F150 Mirage Ruckus Total
    miles/yr 1000 4000 1500 6500
    mpg 12 38 80
    gallons gas / yr 83 105 19 207
    total gas $ / yr $208 $263 $47 $518 *A $2.50/g
    gas tax $40 $51 $9 $100 *B
    gas $ no tax $168 $212 $38 $418 *C
    alt $/m tax $24 $96 $36 $156 *D
    delta tax $(16) $45 $27 $56 *E
    Scenario 1 miles 610 4000 1890
    gas cost $117 $308 $93 $518 *F
    Scenario 2 miles 513 4487 1500
    gas cost $98 $346 $74 $518 *G
    Scenario 3 miles 1000 4983 517
    gas cost $74 $317 $127 $518 *H

    So, according to the row marked *A, at $2.50 / gallon I am paying $518 / yr for gas.

    You can see the difference in tax per vehicle from the gas tax to the proposed mile tax by reviewing row E.

    The question I had was how would I have to modify my driving habits to stay at the same tax rate.

    Row F shows that if I maintain 4000 miles on the Mirage, it adds mileage to the Ruckus and subtracts from the F150 to arrive at the same gas cost.

    Row G - fixed Ruckus mileage favors the Mirage to add miles.

    Row H - fixed F150 mileage favors the Mirage.

    It appears that the alternate tax structure still favors highly efficient vehicles, except for the 3rd case. Not sure why that happens.
    The Ruckus only gets 80? I had a 2013 Zuma 50 and I was getting 115 all the time. 4 stroke efi. I think ruckus is carbed?



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