Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 16

Thread: Rear axle flex on Mirage without a sway bar

  1. #1
    Member Alemon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    ON
    Country
    Canada
    Posts
    65
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 33 Times in 18 Posts

    Rear axle flex on Mirage without a sway bar

    As you can see in this video, I can flex the axle easily with my bare hands and it has a lot of play/movement and thats why a sway bar is highly recommended to increase the stability and safety at high speed of this car.
    https://youtu.be/Pob2bvrPHXI

    I recently bought a sway bar from daox to minimize the axle flex or improve the stability of my mirage.
    http://mirageforum.com/forum/showthr...-rear-sway-bar



  2. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Alemon For This Useful Post:

    Daox (06-13-2018),Top_Fuel (06-13-2018),x111951753 (02-17-2022)

  3. #2
    Senior Member Top_Fuel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Ohio
    Country
    United States
    Posts
    3,699
    Thanks
    2,582
    Thanked 2,537 Times in 1,471 Posts
    Thanks for posting that video. I didn't know the axle flex was that bad! I've got my Doax bar already but haven't installed it yet. It's on the "to-do" list this weekend.

    I'm wondering if you have had your alignment checked after your suspension modifications? Very curious what your rear toe numbers look like.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 52.2 mpg (US) ... 22.2 km/L ... 4.5 L/100 km ... 62.6 mpg (Imp)


  4. #3
    Still Plays With Cars Loren's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Florida
    Country
    United States
    Posts
    1,225
    Thanks
    324
    Thanked 936 Times in 539 Posts
    It's a "twist beam axle", it's designed to twist. They do, indeed, twist a lot!

    Think of it as a pseudo-independent rear suspension.

    And adding the rear swaybar (which is really a "twist beam reinforcement") is great... but, the downside of that is that it reduces the independence of the rear suspension. Instead of twisting when one wheel hits a bump, it transmits more of that movement to the other side and you feel it more.

    But, in a turn, the bigger swaybar takes weight that's being lifted off of the inside rear tire and applies it to the opposite corner (and to a lesser degree to the other two tires, including the inside front) and reduces the tendency of a FWD car to understeer or spin the inside front tire coming out of a turn.

    Everything in suspension design is a compromise. Ride quality vs. handling. Packaging vs. weight. Cost vs. complexity. And on and on.

    I wouldn't give up my rear swaybar. (but, curiously, I *did* give up my front swaybar)
    Simplify and add lightness.

  5. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Loren For This Useful Post:

    Alemon (06-14-2018),daleWV (02-17-2022),Daox (06-13-2018),Marklovski (06-14-2018),mohammad (12-29-2021)

  6. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Location
    Toronto
    Country
    Canada
    Posts
    1,028
    Thanks
    1,543
    Thanked 240 Times in 199 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Loren View Post
    I wouldn't give up my rear swaybar. (but, curiously, I *did* give up my front swaybar)
    If possible Loren can you explain why you decided to give up the front sway bar? i Just started highway commuting recently, ive seen alot of talk about sway bars on the forum but i dont really understand their purpose. I understand that a sway bar will limit the cars "sway" and reduce lean in turns.

    Doesnt the torsion beam itself already to some limited extent act as a sway bar for the rear wheels as shown in the video when one wheels is way up in the air the other also moves up slightly?

    my other question is if i buy a sway bar that mounts to the spring holders like the ultra racing one, when i go over speed bumps at 25-30mph where only one wheel contacts the speed bump won't that destroy the sway bar and the spring mounting point as the sway bar compresses the opposite spring?


    would you recommend these sway bars are only installed with lower and/or stiffer springs?

    my final question is if the sway bar would improve the cars scarry rocking sensation in the wind?
    please consider checking out my Mirage related youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6c...IEViRFw/videos

  7. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    SW, WI
    Country
    United States
    Posts
    7,402
    Thanks
    594
    Thanked 2,688 Times in 2,106 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by mohammad View Post
    If possible Loren can you explain why you decided to give up the front sway bar? i Just started highway commuting recently, ive seen alot of talk about sway bars on the forum but i dont really understand their purpose. I understand that a sway bar will limit the cars "sway" and reduce lean in turns.

    Doesnt the torsion beam itself already to some limited extent act as a sway bar for the rear wheels as shown in the video when one wheels is way up in the air the other also moves up slightly?

    my other question is if i buy a sway bar that mounts to the spring holders like the ultra racing one, when i go over speed bumps at 25-30mph where only one wheel contacts the speed bump won't that destroy the sway bar and the spring mounting point as the sway bar compresses the opposite spring?


    would you recommend these sway bars are only installed with lower and/or stiffer springs?

    my final question is if the sway bar would improve the cars scarry rocking sensation in the wind?
    Sadly, Loren hasn't made a post on the forum since March of 2021. Since Loren raced his Mirage, he had a lot of experience in tweaking its suspension.

    If my memory serves me right, Loren removed items like the front sway bar when he stopped racing his Mirage. He also went back to more normal size tires & other things, too. I miss Loren's insights on the Mirage very much!

    As far as the rear sway goes, I am on my second one. I bought the first generation sway bar that Daox created. I was amazed at how it changed the dynamics of my Mirage. I could tell the car was different before I even got to the end of my rural driveway & got on the road.

    How the Mirage handles at high speeds on windy days is my biggest pet peeve of the entire car. I blame a good portion of that on the electric power steering. I will say a rear sway bar does help, but it doesn't cure the problem totally. I did a 9 hour trip last week & part of it was in a very open area in eastern Iowa. The wind was nasty that day, & it made the trip less pleasant. In all fairness, however, I think the strong winds would have been felt in my Forester to some degree, too.

    The rear sway bars take on a lot of stress. Eventually, my first sway bar failed. Despite that, I purchased one of Daox's updated sway bars. I suspect it may fail some day, too. It's mostly likely why Daox got out of the rear sway bar business. I have seen pics where the Ultra Racing brand of rear sway bars have failed, too. I don't think this indicates they aren't working or doing anything. Rather it's the opposite. They are being overworked to help stabilize the driving dynamics of the car.

    Like everything else these days, I see the price of the Ultra Racing rear sway bar has gone up in price.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/12489219452...IaAluREALw_wcB

    I tend to be cheap when it comes to cars, and I don't usually customize anything. Having said that, when my 2nd rear sway bar fails, I will most likely buy a 3rd one. My parents live 4 hours away. So long trips to visit them are common for me, & I appreciate the rear sway bar improvement for those. If I was just doing short trips around home, I wouldn't bother with the rear sway bar.

    It would be great if Loren would answer you, but I that thought that I would share my experience with the rear sway bar. It does help in situations like you are asking about.

  8. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Malang
    Country
    Indonesia
    Posts
    258
    Thanks
    59
    Thanked 188 Times in 117 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by mohammad View Post
    my other question is if i buy a sway bar that mounts to the spring holders like the ultra racing one, when i go over speed bumps at 25-30mph where only one wheel contacts the speed bump won't that destroy the sway bar and the spring mounting point as the sway bar compresses the opposite spring?


    would you recommend these sway bars are only installed with lower and/or stiffer springs?

    my final question is if the sway bar would improve the cars scarry rocking sensation in the wind?
    If You don't have plan to lower your vehicle go with Ultra Racing. It has lifetime warranty, it won't be a problem even if it's fail.

  9. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    SW, WI
    Country
    United States
    Posts
    7,402
    Thanks
    594
    Thanked 2,688 Times in 2,106 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by FreeYourSOUL View Post
    If You don't have plan to lower your vehicle go with Ultra Racing. It has lifetime warranty, it won't be a problem even if it's fail.
    I don't know of any other option than the Ultra Racing currently, & it's good to know it has a lifetime warranty.

  10. #8
    Senior Member Ares's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Houston
    Country
    United States
    Posts
    1,908
    Thanks
    42
    Thanked 201 Times in 142 Posts
    I thought DOAX still makes/sells them?

  11. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Location
    Toronto
    Country
    Canada
    Posts
    1,028
    Thanks
    1,543
    Thanked 240 Times in 199 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Ares View Post
    I thought DOAX still makes/sells them?
    No, I asked him, they are out of production. I think failure at the welds was a common issue.

    https://mirageforum.com/forum/showth...l=1#post132332
    https://mirageforum.com/forum/showth...l=1#post122175
    please consider checking out my Mirage related youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6c...IEViRFw/videos

  12. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2020
    Location
    Manila
    Country
    Philippines
    Posts
    299
    Thanks
    9
    Thanked 88 Times in 64 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by mohammad View Post
    No, I asked him, they are out of production. I think failure at the welds was a common issue.

    https://mirageforum.com/forum/showth...l=1#post132332
    https://mirageforum.com/forum/showth...l=1#post122175
    that design will surely fail due to torsion stress im thinking what if instead of pipe why not use torsion bar to allow twist but the problem again is how will you anchor that torsion rod on the flange with that design im guessing that kind of metal is hard to weld without future failure, like the UR, i already have the part no. just need to finish my amortization first.



Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •