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Thread: Mirage gets 'Forward Collision Avoidance' technology in Asian market.

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    Senior Member Cobrajet's Avatar
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    Mirage gets 'Forward Collision Avoidance' technology in Asian market.

    Probably means we can expect it here in '19.

    2 new systems:

    Forward Collision Mitigation System’ (FCM-LS)

    Radar detects the distance to the vehicle ahead. In certain situations, the system will warn the driver and automatically apply the brakes reducing the chance of a collision or impact severity.

    Radar Sensing Misacceleration Mitigation System (RMS-FORWARD)

    This prevents sudden unintended starts when there is an object within 4 meters (13.1 feet) ahead. If the accelerator is suddenly depressed, the system will cut engine power to give the driver time to apply the brakes, avoiding or minimizing collision damage.

    https://www.autoindustriya.com/auto-industry-news/2018-mitsubishi-mirage-gets-high-tech-safety-features-in-thailand.html




    Last edited by MetroMPG; 07-24-2018 at 02:56 PM. Reason: (added info to post)

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    Hopefully there will be a way to easily disable it.

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    Moderator Eggman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cookiemonster View Post
    Hopefully there will be a way to easily disable it.
    Why would you want to do that?

    I'm reminded of all the pictures of junkyard Mirages that are all bashed up in the front end. Heck, even the rear end! All these could potentially be avoided with this technology.

    More Mirages on the road.

    Less injuries and medical costs. I know someone who was rear-ended (twice) and is paying for it in chronic, debilitating back pain. Knowing the pain they suffer for the rest of their life makes accident avoidance personal for me.

    Potentially cheaper insurance due to reduced odds of getting in an accident.

    That is, unless someone wants to disable this technology in their own personal vehicle. For what reason, I don't understand.



    I'm going to take a guess that you haven't yet driven a vehicle with this technology. Which poses a question: Who here has experienced this type of technology? I drove a Subaru with adaptive speed control. It worked so good I didn't even know it was doing it's thing.

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 49.6 mpg (US) ... 21.1 km/L ... 4.7 L/100 km ... 59.5 mpg (Imp)


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    Still Plays With Cars Loren's Avatar
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    There are pros and cons to every new technology, especially as it reaches the market and the bugs get worked out of it.

    Three primary braking technologies that I know of are ABS, Brake Assist, and Autonomous Braking. Mitsubishi's "Forward Collision Avoidance" system seems like an "autonomous braking" system.

    ABS has come a long way over the years, and is now excellent technology in pretty much any implementation over the past 10 years or so. The cool thing about ABS is that it is completely unintrusive. It ONLY comes into play when you actually need it. Otherwise, you don't even know it's there.

    Brake Assist is one that I struggle with. I get it. I understand why there is, or may be, a need for it. I just wish there was a way to educate drivers so that it WASN'T needed. Brake assist banks on the fact that the majority of drivers on the roads today simply don't brake hard enough to avoid a crash. They have the data to back this up. The car can stop this fast... it's got ABS, it can stop REALLY fast! But, the driver didn't apply enough brake pressure to stop the car as quickly as it was capable of, and they hit something. So, brake assist is designed to detect when a driver has suddenly applied the brakes, and "assume" that they really wanted to stop the car NOW. This can be good or bad! For the average driver, maybe it's mostly good?

    I have a friend who had this feature on his Civic Si... he knew about it, but never gave it much thought. One day he's driving, nails the brakes for some quick deceleration because he's about to miss a turn... and Brake Assist took over and tried to put him into a full ABS stop!

    As a driver, we need to be aware that this technology exists. If our car has it, sure, we need to understand it, know how sensitive it is, and avoid triggering it unintentionally. But, more importantly, we need to know that the car in front of us might have it! And they might brake harder (MUCH harder) than they intended to simply due to their Brake Assist taking over their stop. And where does that leave you? You better be ready for it! It's just a matter of time before stuff like this is mandated and required on all new cars, just like ABS and Stability Control are.

    Autonomous braking takes it a step further and actually detects what's in front of you and will totally and completly brake FOR you if it thinks you're about to crash into something. There are some cool test videos of this on YouTube. Some systems work better than others. From what I've seen, they generally WON'T completely stop in time to avoid hitting an unexpectedly stopped car in front of you. But, they will greatly reduce the impact, which is a good thing.

    If they made the Autonomous braking system too sensitive, then it would trigger frequently when you don't want it to... so it has to ONLY step in for an eminent collision. From there, it's working just like an airbag... it's not going to prevent a crash, it's just going to reduce the impact.

    Technology is great. But, I really, really wish people would just learn to drive properly.
    Simplify and add lightness.

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    Still Plays With Cars Loren's Avatar
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    This video is a few years old, but it is good:

    https://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/tes...-cars-20402680

    What scares me the most is that people are learning to rely on this technology. "I don't have to pay attention, the car will brake for me." "I don't have to check my blind spot before making a lane change, the car will blink lights and beep at me if there's someone there." "I don't have to worry about staying in my lane, my car has a lane departure warning." Man, I tell you, it's scary stuff! And the auto manufacturer's push every bit of it as "must have features to make your life easier". "It's okay, you can drive like a complete moron, our car will save you from yourself."

    I've even had a driving student that was learning to drive in her Mom's Tesla... she wasn't seeing road signs at all. The Tesla GPS display told her where to turn, what lane to be in, and... what the speed limit was. She was learning to 100% rely on the technology on the car rather than looking at the road and reading the signs!
    Simplify and add lightness.

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    Senior Member IchabodCrane's Avatar
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    "I've even had a driving student that was learning to drive in her Mom's Tesla... she wasn't seeing road signs at all. The Tesla GPS display told her where to turn, what lane to be in, and... what the speed limit was. She was learning to 100% rely on the technology on the car rather than looking at the road and reading the signs!"

    But.. That's the point of it all really.
    We are being herded towards autonomous vehicles where our input is not only not required but considered inadequate and flawed.
    I experience "driving" as enjoyable and see these "safety" measures as intrusive. Because I have learned skill and responsibility behind the wheel these things can be a bit offensive. Yes.. I get that seatbelts, airbags and in some instances, antilock brakes have made things a bit safer but they do not encourage or excuse my non attention to the task of driving.
    Anyway... Young people (new drivers) have been raised with touchscreens, social media and entertainment at every turn. This breeds inattention and lack of commitment to the task at hand. Driving for instance.
    For them, new safety features are a welcome step on the road to vehicle autonomy where they won't ever have to put down the touchscreen just to "drive" somewhere.
    Their goals are not my goals and they are being herded willingly.
    The only real issue is what hazards do they pose for others in these transition years while inattention and lack of skill coupled with semi-autonomous safety features are on the roads with us.
    And how long before those of us who safely and competently "drive" our cars are viewed as the greater threat.
    Will weld for beer.

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage SE 1.2 automatic: 45.3 mpg (US) ... 19.3 km/L ... 5.2 L/100 km ... 54.5 mpg (Imp)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Eggman View Post
    Why would you want to do that?

    I'm reminded of all the pictures of junkyard Mirages that are all bashed up in the front end. Heck, even the rear end! All these could potentially be avoided with this technology.

    More Mirages on the road.

    Less injuries and medical costs. I know someone who was rear-ended (twice) and is paying for it in chronic, debilitating back pain. Knowing the pain they suffer for the rest of their life makes accident avoidance personal for me.

    Potentially cheaper insurance due to reduced odds of getting in an accident.

    That is, unless someone wants to disable this technology in their own personal vehicle. For what reason, I don't understand.



    I'm going to take a guess that you haven't yet driven a vehicle with this technology. Which poses a question: Who here has experienced this type of technology? I drove a Subaru with adaptive speed control. It worked so good I didn't even know it was doing it's thing.
    A good, attentive driver can prevent these things. A radar system may or may not reduce these accident risks. In fact, it may increase these accident risks: people drop their guard, thinking their tech will protect them.

    Having a radar system constantly on almost definitively increases other health risks, which is my concern, e.g.:

    "increased risk of infertility among ... and radar/sonar odds ratio (OR = 2.28, 95% confidence interval 1.27-4.09)" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18240289/

    "occupational exposure to radar microwave radiations may be linked to some non-detrimental and detrimental health effects." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23785684

    "workers occupationally exposed to pulsed microwave radiation, originating from marine radars ... pulsed microwaves from working environment can be the cause of genetic and cell alterations and that oxidative stress can be one of the possible mechanisms of DNA and cell damage." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18240289/

    "study was carried out on clinically healthy male workers employed on radar equipment ... represents a potential DNA-damaging hazard using the alkaline comet assay and chromatid breakage assay as sensitive biomarkers of individual cancer susceptibility." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18214694/

    "cancer increased with the duration of stay in radar battalions. In conclusion, exposure of professional military personnel to anti-aircraft radars that existed in Western Europe from the 1960s until the 1990s may have resulted in an increase in the incidence of hemolymphatic cancers." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19035449/

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    Still Plays With Cars Loren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IchabodCrane View Post
    The only real issue is what hazards do they pose for others in these transition years while inattention and lack of skill coupled with semi-autonomous safety features are on the roads with us.
    And how long before those of us who safely and competently "drive" our cars are viewed as the greater threat.
    You and I are on the same page.

    I'm not anti-technology, but I am against RELYING on technology that isn't ready to be relied on.

    Autonomous traffic can only work when ALL of the cars are autonomous and in synch. As long as there are human drivers (and pedestrians, and bicyclists, and dogs and cats... and deer and moose...) they are the wild cards. No computer can predict human behavious. I say this every day during every driving lesson that I do: "People are stupid, you can't trust them."

    And people ARE relying on this technology, and disregarding the human factor. The car makers are trying to make them think that the technology can SAVE them from the human factor, when in fact it makes them far more vulnerable.

    For example, let's say you've got the best front hazard detection and auto braking system on the planet. It never missed anything, it never makes a mistake, you simply can't crash into the car in front of you when you're using this system. And you're cruising down the road behind the big box truck in front of you. He's driving 50 mph. You're driving 50 mph. You're following too closely, and you're not paying attention, but you trust your system... because it's awesome. And then that driver in front of you sees that the car in front of him is stopped. Maybe due to a traffic back up. Or maybe he's stopped to make a left turn. But, he's stopped. And the driver in front of you saw it. But, you didn't. You didn't need to, right? You've got your auto braking system, you're good. Now, the driver of the truck in front of you that you can't see past doesn't care about you. He's not going to tap the brake or slow down to alert you of the problem ahead. He's just worried about himself and making his next delivery, and he wants to get around the stopped car. There's a break in traffic in the next lane, so he never brakes... in fact, he ACCELERATES, makes a quick lane change to the right at the last second with no signal... and goes on his merry way. And you... are now driving 50 mph with a stopped car in front of you, and physics trumps technology. Your car physically does not have enough time to stop! Autonomous braking might lessen the impact, but your day is done.

    An alert driver who is keeping adequate space and looking PAST the car(s) immediately in front of them is the only defense against such a problem. And that's just one example of something that happens every single day. The only technology that could save you would be cars that are fully linked and communicating with each other.

    It's all or nothing. Until we can have a fully autonomous traffic system, we can't just sit back and let computers drive for us. People are stupid. Or, if you find that too harsh, people are UNPREDICTABLE. And we don't have sophisticated enough sensors to work around that.

    I see these cars with radar, lidar and multiple forward-facing cameras... and I think, "even if the tech is really, really good... what does that camera do when it's raining really hard? When it's snowing? Or when a bug hits the windshield right in front of it?" When people start relying on this technology, they won't know what to do when it is out of commission.

    The transition period is going to be long and scary... and we're right at the beginning of it.
    Simplify and add lightness.

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    Moderator Eggman's Avatar
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    Interesting. I'm not clear any of this justifies disabling the feature.

    I understand the hazards involved with RF exposure - I would be curious to know if disabling forward collision avoidance would power down the sensors.

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    Still Plays With Cars Loren's Avatar
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    Nah, I wouldn't disable any of it unless it was obtrusive in some way. Like Brake Assist... if I know what I'm doing and I brake a bit quickly for some reason, and the Brake Assist kicks in and causes me to lose control... or even just to lose FOCUS because it's being disruptive... I might think about trying to disable it. (at a minimum, I'd be pissed that the car was impeding my driving)

    But, for the most part, it's kind of like driving an automatic transmission. If you're used to driving a Manual, you want the car to shift when YOU want it to shift, and it's frustrating when it makes random downshifts in the middle of a turn, and things like that. But, if you've got an auto trans, you're stuck with it. You can't "disable" it. You just have to learn to work with it. If you've got a car with something like Brake Assist, you just have to learn how to NOT engage it when you don't want to, and you probably can. But, if it sucks so bad that you can't get it to NOT engage when you don't want it to, then you either disable it, or you seek a different car.

    We already hit this kind of wall in the performance driving world. Traction control and autocross generally don't get along well at all! And guess what? Some cars don't allow you to turn off traction control at all! And some will allow you to turn off traction control, but not stability control. It's getting complicated already. I like ABS for autocross, that's good. But, traction control... if I'm accelerating out of a turn and get the slightest bit of wheel spin... it cuts all power, and that's not good.


    Simplify and add lightness.

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