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Thread: Another lesson learned

  1. #41
    Moderator Eggman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrelirwin View Post
    I didn't claim it was law, I said that driving intentionally slow was a hazard. I stand by that.
    Your statements insinuate a legal requirement. The words you chose (obey) carry a meaning in your intent that caught my attention.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrelirwin View Post
    Speed limits are meant to be obeyed, that applies to both above AND below speed.
    And...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrelirwin View Post
    We don't have posted minimum speed limits on the highways here, so the posted limit DOES act as a min/max.


    In our world, it is easy to go along life seeing only what we want to see. When it comes to driving on public roads there are many motorists of all walks of life who simply want to get to work, get to school, get to the hospital, respond to a fire or accident, et al.

    We all have a reasonable expectation to our safety.

    I would take a different approach if you framed your idea a little differently. For example, if you instead mentioned that the difference in speed creates a hazard, you have no argument from me on that point. I understand that and agree with it. I have a problem with the idea that speed limits are minimums as well as maximums. Because they are not legal minimum limits - that is why you can't find a legal reference to back it up.

    I would like to find ways to get people to scale back their aggression on the roads. Here's the interesting thing about choosing to purchase a Mirage. The Mirage is a small, modestly-powered car. It is affordable to purchase, economical to operate and maintain, and reliable. It's size allows easy maneuverability, allowing it to easily navigate a variety of streets and parking areas. It fulfills the transportation needs of the vast majority of motorists.

    I think the big thing that causes people to knock the Mirage is their ego. That in their mind, it's not powerful enough, not large enough, not fast enough. But in reality it's perfectly sufficient.

    If only people would adjust their own expectations instead of demanding the rest of the world 'obey'...


    Last edited by Eggman; 03-08-2019 at 07:10 PM. Reason: Added third quote

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 49.8 mpg (US) ... 21.2 km/L ... 4.7 L/100 km ... 59.8 mpg (Imp)


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  3. #42
    Moderator Eggman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
    It's a misconception that you have to drive slowly to hypermile.
    Your own "Speed vs. mpg/mileage/fuel economy chart" says otherwise:

    Quote Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
    Niky Tamayo is a car writer in the Philippines with a refreshing take on things automotive... oh, and he's also an all around good guy. He's a member of the EcoModder forum and he recently let me know he that was going to be reviewing a "poverty spec" bare bones Mirage 1.2L, 5-speed for a week.

    I asked (pleaded?): would he please try to put together some speed vs. fuel consumption stats if he got the chance.

    Well, Niky has come through for us!


    (Note: graph uses averages of the values from the table below.)

    Conditions & setup


    • Temperature: 30 degrees C / 86 F
    • Air conditioning on
    • Bridgestone Ecopia tires, 30-32 psi
    • bi-directional runs 40, 60, 80 km/h; unidirectional runs 100 & 120 km/h


    Results - fuel consumption at steady speeds, in top (5th) gear:

    Speed Engine RPM
    (approx.)
    km/L
    L/100 km
    mpg (US)
    mpg (Imp.)
    40 km/h
    25 mph
    ~1200 34.5 - 34.8 2.9 81.2 - 81.9 97.5 - 98.3
    60 km/h
    37 mph
    ~1800 28 - 32 3.1 - 3.6 65.9 - 75.3 79.1 - 90.4
    80 km/h
    50 mph
    ~2000 24.5 - 24.8 4.0 - 4.1 57.6 - 58.3 69.2 - 70.1
    100 km/h
    62 mph
    ~3000 20.4 - 21 4.8 - 4.9 48.0 - 49.4 57.6 - 59.3
    120 km/h
    75 mph
    ~3600 16 - 18 5.6 - 6.3 37.6 - 42.3 45.2 - 50.9


    Caveats


    1. The car had only ~2000 km (1200 miles) on the clock (economy likely won't be as good as when it's better broken in).
    2. No cruise control - driver trying to hold constant speed as best as possible.
    3. It had the optional upswept "sport" spoiler that likely hurts the coefficient of drag a little bit:
    4. The figures were taken by resetting the Mirage's factory fuel economy gauge (uncalibrated) once up to speed.
    5. The refresh rate of the the gauge made it hard to get accuracy at higher speeds (running out of room on the stretch of straight & level test road before the gauge updated).
    6. Because of the above point, the 100 & 120 km/h figures were taken on a different road and Niky is not as confident in the 120 km/h figure owing to road grade - so it's a best estimate.


    ---

    UPDATE, November 7 ... fuel economy vs. speed results for the CVT

    The website CleanMPG has done a review of the CVT equipped Mirage in the U.S., and posted numbers for fuel economy vs. speed. Here are those numbers superimposed on our initial graph for the 5-speed.

    Not surprisingly, it shows the CVT outperforming the 5-speed, with the exception of the last data point. Because of that, I'd say we need to take this comparison with a grain of salt (see explanation, below)...



    Grain of salt: despite what these plots indicate, I'm skeptical that the 5-speed and CVT switch places once speed exceeds ~105 km/h / 65 mph. Why? Because the vehicles were tested under very different ambient conditions and on different roads, which makes a direct comparison risky.

    An ideal comparison would see a CVT and 5-speed compared back to back on the same route, in the same weather conditions. Maybe we'll still get a chance to do that.

    ----

    2017 Mirage G4 CVT

    (From thread: Darin's test drive review notes: 2017 Mitsubishi Mirage G4 sedan CVT )

    Attachment 7384

    Notes:

    - Values are averages of bi-directional runs on a level road *
    - (* except for the highest speed, which should be considered an estimate only)
    - Weather: 21 C / 70 F, dry, with negligible wind
    - no traffic ahead in my lane (no aero / drafting effect)
    - A/C off
    - Driver only on board
    - Headlights on
    - Tires at manufacturer's recommended pressure (35 PSI)
    - Readings were taken from the car's MPG display (which was within a few % of calculations at the pump based on 2 fill-ups).
    Three different charts demonstrate that as speed increases, fuel consumption also increases. What explains the difference in fuel consumption between low speeds and high speeds? The only difference I see is increased wind resistance.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 49.8 mpg (US) ... 21.2 km/L ... 4.7 L/100 km ... 59.8 mpg (Imp)


  4. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eggman View Post
    If only people would adjust their own expectations instead of demanding the rest of the world 'obey'...
    ...you say to someone who owns a mirage, and drives the speed limit....




    An alternate argument for not driving slower than the limit:

    If you are driving below the limit in a Mirage (very fuel efficient) and causing traffic (muliple less efficient vehicles) behind you to needlessly apply the brakes, you are personally responsible for turning countless litres of gasoline into brake dust.

    In addition; these other vehicles, once past you, will need to re-accelerate to acheive safe and reasonable (read: speed limit) driving speeds. This is a further reduction in collective efficiency.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage ES 1.2 automatic: 36.9 mpg (US) ... 15.7 km/L ... 6.4 L/100 km ... 44.3 mpg (Imp)


  5. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrelirwin View Post
    ...you say to someone who owns a mirage, and drives the speed limit....




    An alternate argument for not driving slower than the limit:

    If you are driving below the limit in a Mirage (very fuel efficient) and causing traffic (muliple less efficient vehicles) behind you to needlessly apply the brakes, you are personally responsible for turning countless litres of gasoline into brake dust.

    In addition; these other vehicles, once past you, will need to re-accelerate to acheive safe and reasonable (read: speed limit) driving speeds. This is a further reduction in collective efficiency.
    That is entirely their choice, not mine.

    This reminds me of the impact of peer pressure. It's interesting what we can and will do just because everyone else is doing it. That is until you stop and ask why we are doing it (peer pressure?) and ponder the benefits against the cost.
    Last edited by Eggman; 03-13-2019 at 12:16 AM.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 49.8 mpg (US) ... 21.2 km/L ... 4.7 L/100 km ... 59.8 mpg (Imp)


  6. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrelirwin View Post
    If you are driving below the limit in a Mirage (very fuel efficient) and causing traffic (muliple less efficient vehicles) behind you to needlessly apply the brakes, you are personally responsible for turning countless litres of gasoline into brake dust.

    In addition; these other vehicles, once past you, will need to re-accelerate to acheive safe and reasonable (read: speed limit) driving speeds. This is a further reduction in collective efficiency.
    I like the title of this thread "another lesson learned".

    When I am working with 15.5 to 16 year old drivers, I try to teach them the wisdom of driving responsibly. I am not trying to be critical of what of what is being shared here, but I do point out the importance of a safe following distance. When you are being super attentive (looking ahead) and maintaining a safe following distance, your brakes are seldom used. When someone is accelerating & braking repetitively, it's more wear/tear on the car, less efficient, and not as safe. You can follow a slow driver & not need your brakes. It's called slowing down!

    I also teach my students how to control other drivers around them. One way of doing that is coming into intersections or stops slowly. If you slow down gradually/early, it makes everyone behind you to do the same. The last thing you want to do is come up to an intersection super fast and hit the brakes hard. That's just asking for an accident. New drivers are really guilty of that, & I remember my dad being on my case about that when I was a kid. I still remember my dad making the statement - "The brakes in this pickup truck will need to be replaced within a year the way you drive!" I hate to admit it, but he was probably right!

    It's funny how we see/understand that wisdom so much better later in life!

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  8. #46
    Senior Member DonkeyPal's Avatar
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    Race car drivers have to have their tires changed several times just to drive 200 miles, so the original poster wasn't doing that bad.




        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage DE 1.2 automatic: 43.0 mpg (US) ... 18.3 km/L ... 5.5 L/100 km ... 51.7 mpg (Imp)


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