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Thread: 2012 Scion iQ vs 2018 Mitsubishi Mirage

  1. #11
    Administrator MetroMPG's Avatar
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    - "Dead" steering
    - Worse body roll

    Cheap and easy fix for that with one of Daox's (or any aftermarket) rear stabilizer bar. It won't "cure" the dead steering, but it'll feel somewhat more responsive.

    Mitsu should have made this an option or put it on certain trims from Day 1.


        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage base ES 1.2 manual: 54.0 mpg (US) ... 23.0 km/L ... 4.4 L/100 km ... 64.9 mpg (Imp)


  2. #12
    Still Plays With Cars Loren's Avatar
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    For every person who complains of numb steering, if it were properly "responsive", there would be 5 who would complain that it was too wandery or unstable or didn't track straight or was too hard to steer or didn't ride smoothly enough. Such is the nature of this market segment.

    If you want crisp steering in this kind of car, your first modification is tires. Narrow eco-rated tires are not intended to be responsive. Then you can add a rear swaybar. If that's not enough, you go for shocks. But, it's hard to blame the car makers... they're designing a car to appeal to the masses. (as best they can while still achieving their design goals) Mitsubishi must be doing something right, they've sold 100,000 of them in the US.

    Everything is a compromise.
    Simplify and add lightness.

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  4. #13
    Senior Member timw4mail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loren View Post
    For every person who complains of numb steering, if it were properly "responsive", there would be 5 who would complain that it was too wandery or unstable or didn't track straight or was too hard to steer or didn't ride smoothly enough. Such is the nature of this market segment.

    If you want crisp steering in this kind of car, your first modification is tires. Narrow eco-rated tires are not intended to be responsive. Then you can add a rear swaybar. If that's not enough, you go for shocks. But, it's hard to blame the car makers... they're designing a car to appeal to the masses. (as best they can while still achieving their design goals) Mitsubishi must be doing something right, they've sold 100,000 of them in the US.

    Everything is a compromise.
    I don't think I mean the same thing when it comes to steering. I don't have a problem with the responsiveness of the steering. What I have an issue with is that you can't feel the tires pushing back through the steering -- you can't physically feel how much you are turning through the wheel. (On the other hand, the body (by default) gives too much of that kind of feedback, but I digress.)

    I think this is partially due to the electronic steering. Since the iQ also has electronic steering, I have to assume that there is some mechanism added to give more feedback to the steering wheel.

    At least for the 2018 Mirage I have, I don't have as much issue with the body roll as I do with the steering feel. The car does have more body roll than I'd like, but the car seems more planted than you'd expect for the amount of body roll.


    Gee, physical sensations are difficult to describe verbally.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2018 Mirage SE 1.2 automatic: 33.6 mpg (US) ... 14.3 km/L ... 7.0 L/100 km ... 40.4 mpg (Imp)


  5. #14
    Still Plays With Cars Loren's Avatar
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    It's mostly tires and shocks.

    The iQ has more treadwidth per pound, and a lower profile tire. That in itself has an effect. 175/60 = 105mm sidewall height. 165/65 = 99mm. It all adds up. I'd bet that the Mirage has a much more "eco" tire than the iQ. Being a Scion, the iQ would have been a little more on the "sporty" end of the curve. (not a lot... but, a little)

    Same with the shock valving that Toyota chose for the iQ. On the comfort vs. handling compromise, I would expect that car to be more on the sporty side.

    People always complain about whatever the newest technology is. Our electric power steering isn't the problem. We have direct rack-and-pinion steering, there's just a little motor that "assists" our efforts. The steering feel is there. The under-controlled body roll (shocks) and tall, soft sidewalls on the tires are what's taking away that feel.

    The power steering can be tuned to deliver more or less boost, as well. There could surely be some difference in that tuning between the iQ and the Mirage. But, again, it's all about compromises.

    I'll put it this way, I've made zero changes to the steering rack or power steering in my Mirage. I changed the tires, the shocks, the springs, and a little bit of suspension geometry. But, not the steering. Everybody who drives it says "damn, that's way more fun than I expected it to be". They're not saying that because it's fast. It's still a Mirage, it's not fast. They're saying that because it has crisp handling and crazy grip and goes where you point it! The steering is honestly fantastic! No complaints about that at all.

    Another thing you can look at is alignment. Not just the infamously suspect rear alignment, but front alignment. Particularly, the front toe. By default, it's probably spec'd to be just a little bit toed in. However much it's toed in, you could toe it out by the same amount and not affect tire wear. Try adjusting it more toward zero toe. Toe-in inherently wants to go straight. Keeping a LITTLE bit of that is not a bad thing. But, if you want quicker turn-in, bring it closer to zero toe. (or, if you really want to play with it, go a little toe-out... but, that might make the car a little "wandery") It's another compromise. One that most people don't think about.
    Simplify and add lightness.

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    I know this is an old post but I had to chime in since I used to have a (bought used) 2012 Scion iQ for a little while. It was kind of expensive new for what it was and it had a much more premium feeling than the Mirage does but I feel the Mirage (mine is a manual) is a bit more lively in the acceleration department and definitely a more usable vehicle for not being all that much bigger. Like Loren said previously, I think the handling and feel of the Mirage would be easily made better with better tires and wheels than the roller skate wheels they come with but at a fuel economy penalty.

    The iQ was definitely a conversation starter though... damn near every time I stopped somewhere with it someone had to ask me a question about it.

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  9. #16
    Senior Member timw4mail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dodge Aries K View Post
    I know this is an old post but I had to chime in since I used to have a (bought used) 2012 Scion iQ for a little while. It was kind of expensive new for what it was and it had a much more premium feeling than the Mirage does but I feel the Mirage (mine is a manual) is a bit more lively in the acceleration department and definitely a more usable vehicle for not being all that much bigger. Like Loren said previously, I think the handling and feel of the Mirage would be easily made better with better tires and wheels than the roller skate wheels they come with but at a fuel economy penalty.

    The iQ was definitely a conversation starter though... damn near every time I stopped somewhere with it someone had to ask me a question about it.
    I do miss the looks I would get on the freeway

    While I think the CVT in the mirage isn't as refined in feel, it does have better top-end gearing. Plus, there was no factory cruise control option for the iQ. A three-hour drive each way to a certain amusement park was quite tiring in the iQ.

    One annoyance tradeoff: the tray in the iQ that replaces the glove box means little internal storage, but the glove box cover in the mirage keeps squeaking, so sometimes I'd rather leave it open.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2018 Mirage SE 1.2 automatic: 33.6 mpg (US) ... 14.3 km/L ... 7.0 L/100 km ... 40.4 mpg (Imp)


  10. #17
    Senior Member dspace9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timw4mail View Post
    One annoyance tradeoff: the tray in the iQ that replaces the glove box means little internal storage, but the glove box cover in the mirage keeps squeaking, so sometimes I'd rather leave it open.
    My Mirage's dash has some rattles, maybe not that bad but noticable comes and goes. They say the same about Lancers. Plasticy cars

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 214 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 39.8 mpg (US) ... 16.9 km/L ... 5.9 L/100 km ... 47.8 mpg (Imp)


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    Quote Originally Posted by timw4mail View Post
    While I think the CVT in the mirage isn't as refined in feel, it does have better top-end gearing. Plus, there was no factory cruise control option for the iQ. A three-hour drive each way to a certain amusement park was quite tiring in the iQ.
    That's one of a few reasons I let the iQ go. I can't hold the gas pedal for long periods of time and I'm really not fond of those aftermarket cruise control systems at all.
    -Karl B. Relevant vehicle for here is a 2019 Mirage ES 5 speed hatchback. Lots of Toyotas and old Chryslers also.

  12. #19
    Senior Member timw4mail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dodge Aries K View Post
    That's one of a few reasons I let the iQ go. I can't hold the gas pedal for long periods of time and I'm really not fond of those aftermarket cruise control systems at all.
    It really isn't bad for city / rural highway driving, just not great for freeway driving.

    The iQ is much noisier engine-wise than the Mirage, but the iQ has better sound-proofing. Both cars are fairly noisy.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2018 Mirage SE 1.2 automatic: 33.6 mpg (US) ... 14.3 km/L ... 7.0 L/100 km ... 40.4 mpg (Imp)


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    My younger days I'd be okay but now it hurts too much to hold the pedal too long. Hence why I bought a 19 mirage I stead of one of those killer deal 18's... Since I bought it before I found this forum and saw how easy it is to add cruise... Dang it.


    -Karl B. Relevant vehicle for here is a 2019 Mirage ES 5 speed hatchback. Lots of Toyotas and old Chryslers also.

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