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Thread: Engine suddenly wouldn't start, and then will

  1. #1
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    Engine suddenly wouldn't start, and then will

    I had a very odd experience with my 2015 yesterday. It wouldn't start suddenly with no indication to cause.

    It was a daily driver until a week ago. Saturday I finally fixed the air intake properly with silicone as suggested by others here. I didn't start it back up, just left it in drive. Monday my wife called and said the battery was dead. Got off work and tried to start it, battery wasn't dead but it would not start. Cranked over fine. I pushed pedal to floor and tried again and thought it stuttered but no start. I pulled air cleaner off, no silicone where I didn't intend it. Cranked a time or two with no housing, just the filter in place. Nothing. Pulled and checked every fuse, all good. Tried starting again. Floored pedal and got it to stutter and finally start. Struggled to idle a minute and then finally cleaned up and is running now fine. Never set a check engine light.

    Any idea what the cause might be? Want some confidence since I can't point to anything being the culprit.


        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage DE 1.2 automatic: 46.2 mpg (US) ... 19.6 km/L ... 5.1 L/100 km ... 55.5 mpg (Imp)


  2. #2
    It was flooded.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage SE wussie cvt edition. 1.2 automatic: 37.7 mpg (US) ... 16.0 km/L ... 6.2 L/100 km ... 45.3 mpg (Imp)


  3. #3
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    It does sound like it was flooded by his description. But why was it flooded? It sounds like from his description it had sat a long time, Saturday to Monday.

    When he said he left it in drive, I'm wondering if he meant he just left it in the driveway ... or did he actually leave the gear selector in the Drive position? And could leaving it in the Drive position cause the emissions vacuum valve to stay open (and flooding the engine)? I doubt it, but I really don't know.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2020 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 42.4 mpg (US) ... 18.0 km/L ... 5.6 L/100 km ... 50.9 mpg (Imp)


  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by 7milesout View Post
    It does sound like it was flooded by his description. But why was it flooded? It sounds like from his description it had sat a long time, Saturday to Monday.

    When he said he left it in drive, I'm wondering if he meant he just left it in the driveway ... or did he actually leave the gear selector in the Drive position? And could leaving it in the Drive position cause the emissions vacuum valve to stay open (and flooding the engine)? I doubt it, but I really don't know.
    YEah I didn't follow the leaving it in Drive part. If it was left in drive for 3 days the key would have been left in the accessory position killing the battery. It was probably flooded because of what they did to it prior to fixing the air cleaner. Start it cold and shut it off shortly after and it's often officially flooded. I've seen it many times, bring a car in from around freezing temps and when I go to pull it back out an hour or even days later it's flooded. If it happens outside I've always been able to get them running by holding the throttle open. But if they flood while inside(warm shop) they're a pita and I gotta pull the plugs and blow out the cylinders. Going from cold to warm ambient temps might be the main cause of this? Running pig rich when cold then on the next startup in warm temps it dumps too much fuel and floods it? Just a shart in the dark.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage SE wussie cvt edition. 1.2 automatic: 37.7 mpg (US) ... 16.0 km/L ... 6.2 L/100 km ... 45.3 mpg (Imp)


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  6. #5
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    Yes left it in driveway. Shut off normally after a 60 mile highway trip, not started before fixing air cleaner.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage DE 1.2 automatic: 46.2 mpg (US) ... 19.6 km/L ... 5.1 L/100 km ... 55.5 mpg (Imp)


  7. #6
    That makes sense now. Driveway....rather than you left the transmission in drive. Stupid internet.

    The only other reason/cause for it flood that I've seen is sometimes when it's coldish out, when you go to start it and you let go of the key before engine is actually running. Basically if you stop cranking before the engine is actually running that can cause them to flood out too. Then trying and trying and trying some more will just make things worse. Depending on how bad it is I usually give it 5 mins, turn the key to run, hold gas pedal to the floor(I remove the bulky rubber floor mat from behind the pedal on our work cars) then crank while holding pedal down until it starts. These cars are kinda idiot proof, once the engine is running you can just keep on holding the key in the start position all day long and you won't hurt a thing. The car kills power to the starter wire once it's running. You can also turn key to start when it's running and it won't kick in.

    But maybe you have push button start?

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage SE wussie cvt edition. 1.2 automatic: 37.7 mpg (US) ... 16.0 km/L ... 6.2 L/100 km ... 45.3 mpg (Imp)


  8. #7
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    No push button start. I hope you are right about the flooded engine, but I have no idea how it happened. Was in the 60s. Wife may have flooded it, but it then sat 8 hours until I tried. Seems fine now. Hopefully it is a one time event and not an indication of underlying mechanical/ electrical issue

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage DE 1.2 automatic: 46.2 mpg (US) ... 19.6 km/L ... 5.1 L/100 km ... 55.5 mpg (Imp)


  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by jbarr View Post
    No push button start. I hope you are right about the flooded engine, but I have no idea how it happened. Was in the 60s. Wife may have flooded it, but it then sat 8 hours until I tried. Seems fine now. Hopefully it is a one time event and not an indication of underlying mechanical/ electrical issue
    When I flooded a few in the shop the sat more than 8 hrs and didn't fix themselves. The plugs were soaked in fuel. If holding the pedal to the floor doesn't work, drying out spark plugs, unplugging the injectors and cranking it for a few seconds will help push out the fuel stuck in the cylinders. Doesn't always work this easy though. One last thought....a weak battery will crank slower, give weaker spark, and make it more prone to flooding(in theory). It can be hard to tell how weak a battery is until you replace it or test it. I've seen batteries start a car without issue but load test shows it's junk only putting out half it's rated capacity. If you're still running the original hitatchi battery you might want to consider replacing it. Most aftermarket battery offer higher output than the oem which does help.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage SE wussie cvt edition. 1.2 automatic: 37.7 mpg (US) ... 16.0 km/L ... 6.2 L/100 km ... 45.3 mpg (Imp)


  10. #9
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    On my wife's Matrix, there is a valve. Called something like the Emissions Vacuum Valve. When the car is either on, or maybe it must be running, or maybe the ECM opens this valve at some point when the car is running, this valve is plumbed into the intake. So when running this line is in vacuum. The valve opens and the vacuum sucks the vapors through the charcoal cannister and dumps it into the intake to be combusted. When the car is turned off, the valve closes.

    These valves on this car are known to go bad. Most of the time it doesn't cause a problem. However, when fuel is added, it certainly does. The liquid fuel being added to the tank (refueling) pushes the vapors out of the top of the tank, through the vapor system and into the intake because the valve is open. And all this vapor floods the crap out of the engine. So my wife called me and told me she had just added gas and couldn't get the car to start. I went and got it started for her. It cleared up and ran fine. Next gas station stop, same thing.

    I did research, the valve was like $15. I replaced the valve and it has been perfect since then. I wonder if when jbarr was playing with his air cleaner, maybe he pulled loose defeating this valve, and allowing the vapor to flow into the engine, yielding the same problem my wife's Matrix had. Just a guess. Jbarr - Did you pull any hoses loose when you were doing what you did?

    I've cranked my car at least twice and shut it down within 10 seconds. It has never had a problem restarting (only 16k miles though, and in a warmer climate).


    7milesout

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2020 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 42.4 mpg (US) ... 18.0 km/L ... 5.6 L/100 km ... 50.9 mpg (Imp)


  11. #10
    Yeah, the purge valve. I replaced one on our highest mileage Mirage. It had a hard time starting right after fueling up but was fine after that first intial start. IIRC that is. Had the same problem with a sonic as well. The valve on the Mirage is burried in a pita to get to spot. One hose goes back to the gretta canister and the other one goes to the throttle valve/valve body thingamajig. The big hose on that clips on the side of the air cleaner is just a vent from the valve cover to the air intake hose. The smaller one below that is a transmission vent, at least it is on the wussy editions.


        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage SE wussie cvt edition. 1.2 automatic: 37.7 mpg (US) ... 16.0 km/L ... 6.2 L/100 km ... 45.3 mpg (Imp)


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