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Thread: Fuel efficient tires for 14" OE wheels

  1. #11
    Administrator Daox's Avatar
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    I also agree that the Falken Sincera SN250 is one of the lowest cost/mile tires you can get for the Mirage. If you're looking to save money, this tire is an excellent choice. It has a UTQG (treadwear) rating of 720. It also has an 80k mile treadwear warranty.

    The Kinergy ST is not far behind it in that regard. It has a 680 UTQG rating, and a treadwear warranty of 70k miles. So, its really nipping at the heels of the Sincera SN250s as far as treadwear goes. However, its also a low rolling resistance tire. This could provide a substantial fuel economy boost over the Sincera SN250. Its really hard to say without reviews and testing, but I would have to say that this tire is going to be right up there in cost/mile with the Sincera SN250.

    As a side note, we can't fully compare the UTQG ratings of the two different companies. There is no standardized test that makes all UTQG ratings the same. So, the Kinergy and Sincera could actually wear at exactly the same rate... or they could be fairly different. But, the companies probably wouldn't warranty tires drastically different than what they would think they wear at, so I think its safe to assume that the Sinceras will last more miles than the Kinergy. But, I also think its likely that the Kinergys will give you better fuel economy than the Sinceras. Is the loss in tread life worth the boost in fuel economy? I don't know. That is your choice when you choose your tires for your car.

    We've not mentioned many other factors in tires like noise, and handling in dry, wet, and snowy conditions. That is because this thread is about "Fuel efficient tires for 14" OE wheels". The tires listed here are ones you would buy if you're looking to improve fuel economy. If you want the best handling, you would likely avoid all the tires listed here.


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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage DE 1.2 manual: 47.2 mpg (US) ... 20.1 km/L ... 5.0 L/100 km ... 56.7 mpg (Imp)


  2. #12
    Administrator Daox's Avatar
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    I ran some numbers today for fun just to see what kind of money you could save with low rolling resistance (LRR) tires. Numerous times I've read that LRR tires can save up to 10% on fuel. That is a pretty huge amount. So, lets use the Kinergy ST tires as an example. They cost $60 each, and with mounting the total comes to about $350. They're warrantied to last 70k miles. How much money could they save you in that time? I threw together this spreadsheet to find out. The top line is the Kinergy ST tires, the bottom would be a non-LRR tire that reduces fuel economy by 10%.

    Name:  tireexample.jpg
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    I used the 42.5 mpg from our own fuel log data. This is the average of all the people putting data in here. I used this as the starting point since the OE Enasave tire is also a LRR tire. As you can see, a 10% hit in fuel economy can add up over time. Over those 70k miles, that 10% fuel economy savings can actually pay for the tire and more versus a same priced non-LRR tire.

    This is just an example of what is possible with LRR tires. Its probably a best case scenario with gaining the full 10%. I imagine real world is probably less on average. However, even if your tires saved you 5% on fuel, it would still pay for half of the price of the tire! Thats good enough for me to spend some time looking into it.
    Custom Mirage products: Cruise control kit, Glove box light, MAF sensor housing, Rear sway bar, Upper grill block

    Current project: DIY Nitrous oxide setup for ~$100

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage DE 1.2 manual: 47.2 mpg (US) ... 20.1 km/L ... 5.0 L/100 km ... 56.7 mpg (Imp)


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  4. #13
    Still Plays With Cars Loren's Avatar
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    Couple thoughts here.

    1. I think 5% is a more realistic expectation from a LRR tire vs. a non LRR tire. (of course, if you combine that with a little over-inflation, it might get closer to 10%... and if you add in good driving technique with the right circumstances, you can turn 10% into 20-50%)

    2. Unless you're doing almost exclusively highway driving, you're not going to get 70-80k miles out of a set of tires. The warranty is just a tool for them to get you to stick with their brand. They wear out at 50k, you go in and claim your warranty, they're going to pro-rate the price of a new tire against the 50k miles you have on your tires. It's a lot like just getting a 20% discount on a new set of tires at that point. Which isn't bad. But, don't go in thinking that "70,000 mile warranty" means "these tires will last 70,000 miles".

    3. Tires tend to start getting really dried out, really hard, and start dry-rotting at about 3-5 years. If you're not putting 20k miles per year on your car, an 80k mile warranty is useless. Your tires will be marginally safe to use long before that. The aging process is accelerated if you don't keep the car in a garage.

    https://www.edmunds.com/car-maintena...our-tires.html

    I go through 2-3 sets of tires per year on my car due to motorsports, so none of this matters to me. But, my wife's car... she only drives maybe 6-8,000 miles per year, sometimes less. Invariably, we replace the tires on her car at about the 3 year mark when she starts complaining about decreasing grip in the rain. We replace her tires at about half tread... somewhere around 18-24k miles. The warranty is irrelevant to us. They would laugh at us if we tried to claim warranty because "these tires aren't as grippy in the rain as they were when they were new".

    So, with that in mind. Consider how YOU drive your car. How many miles are you going to put on your car IN FOUR YEARS. That should be all you expect out of a tire. And if you're calculating savings from LRR... use THAT number of miles in your calculations to get a much more realistic answer that doesn't require you to continue driving on a set of tires that are way past their prime to see the full financial benefit.

    Side note: Tires harden from age even in storage. Ever notice that places like Tire Rack will occasionally have tires on a clearance discount? Have a look at the date codes on those tires. They're going to be somewhere around 2 years old. They're already starting to "go off" at that point, and they know it.
    Simplify and add lightness.

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    LRR Hype

    I agree with a lot of what Loren has said. Personally, I think a person may even find a tire that will out perform LRR tire in the mpg department, even though it isn't advertised as a LRR tire. It's really hard to compare apples to apples when it comes to tires. I personally don't buy into the LRR tire hype, & I surely wouldn't base my purchase of new tires solely on a tire company's claim of offering LRR tires.

    For example, Firestone has recently released a tire that called the Firestone Champion Fuel Fighter. The name alone indicates this is a LRR, & Firestone is claiming this tire to be a fuel efficient. Thus, Tirerack tested this tire against 3 common tires. If you are really interested in this topic, take the time to read the report for yourself.

    https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=215

    https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...r.jsp?ttid=215

    The difference in the mpg between the 4 tested tires was .8 mpg, & their test appeared to be very well done over a 500 mile stretch. Overall, there wasn't any notable difference in mpg. The LRR Firestone tire only tied for that top mpg honor. It wasn't like the Firestone was even better than the other 3 tires in the mpg category.

    Meanwhile theFirestone Champion Fuel Fighter didn't perform all that well. Especially in areas that would be important to me as midwest driver dealing with all sorts of various weather conditions. The Firestone Champion Fuel Fighter is not a bad tire, but I surely wouldn't get sucked into buying it for LRR reasons. I surely wouldn't pay extra for this tire.

    Living in the midwest, I have alway heard that the General AltiMAX RT43 is a dependable all-season tire. This report seems to support that. I sincerely drive on roads that can be treacherous. I watched a snow plow back down the hill in front of my house twice last winter. Why? He couldn't keep the front of his snow plow dump truck on the road. The weight of his plow was pulling the truck into the ditch. This is a dump truck that's loaded with sand & has rear tire chains on. He had to back the truck down the hill dropping sand/salt as he went. It was the only way he could get the snow truck down the hill & stay on the road. This is the same little hill I climb as soon as I leave my driveway. This little hill is nothing compared to the county hill road I must climb to even get to the side road that I live on.

    I really doubt there is much difference between Falken Sincera SN250 AS All-Season & the Hankook Kinergy ST H735 in the mpg department. They appear to be very similar tires. Even their tread pattern looks very similar.

    If LRR is your top priority, buying used tires may be your best option. In most cases, worn tires will outperform most new LRR tires in the mpg department. The deep treads of new tires probably reduce mpg more than anything.

    Some LRR tires may be superior to others, and these Firestone tires may be a bad example of that. Tire companies can say whatever about their tires. I guess that's my point more than anything.

    I think a person can buy Hankook Kinergy ST H735 tires and feel they made a good purchase. They are inexpensive and should last a long time. At the same time, I think a person can feel the same about buying the Falken tires. I highly doubt you would find a 10% mpg difference in these tires. My guess is that these tires would be very similar in the mpg area.

    This would make one heck of a science fair project. It's to bad my middle school students don't own cars & drive yet.

  7. #15
    Senior Member Top_Fuel's Avatar
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    It's difficult to compare rolling resistance between tire brands because there is no rolling resistance testing standard in the US. We have to rely on independent/manufacturer testing. I sifted through a lot of this data and based my tire selection largely on conclusions I drew from these tests.

    Low rolling resistance tires make a difference. One thing these tests rarely mention is how driving style impacts the results you will experience. A car driven "normally" will get slightly better mileage running low rolling resistance tires...but maybe not enough to notice unless you're closely tracking your fuel mileage.

    On the other hand, a car driven conservatively will extract the most benefit from a LRR tire. When you're doing simple hyper-miler tricks like coasting up to red lights, etc...a LRR tire will provide a noticeable bump in fuel mileage. After 50,000 miles of my own testing, I feel pretty confident saying that my Mirage would not consistently net 50+ mpg if I suddenly changed to a non-LRR tire.

    LRR tires are certainly not a silver bullet for good fuel economy. Your driving situations and habits play the biggest roles. But...if you have mastered your "ECO" driving habits and are looking for the next step in increasing your fuel economy, LRR tires are easily the next thing I would tell someone to do. Just do your research and get LRR tires with acceptable driving characteristics AND long tread life (and don't buy until you get a mfr rebate!).

    On a related note...how cool would it be to test rolling resistance with a tricycle fitted with car tires?

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 52.2 mpg (US) ... 22.2 km/L ... 4.5 L/100 km ... 62.6 mpg (Imp)


  8. #16
    Administrator Daox's Avatar
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    All great points guys!
    Custom Mirage products: Cruise control kit, Glove box light, MAF sensor housing, Rear sway bar, Upper grill block

    Current project: DIY Nitrous oxide setup for ~$100

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage DE 1.2 manual: 47.2 mpg (US) ... 20.1 km/L ... 5.0 L/100 km ... 56.7 mpg (Imp)


  9. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daox View Post
    All great points guys!
    Daox - Noticed this special offer tire being carried by simpletire.com recently. According to the European ratings of this tire, it has a C level rating for rolling resistance.

    https://simpletire.com/continental-1...53980100-tires

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  11. #18
    Administrator Daox's Avatar
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    Very nice find! Its always great to find another tire in the original size. Thanks for posting.

    The price seems quite reasonable too. It matches the Kinergy St tires.

    OE page link:

    https://www.continental-tires.com/ca...ntiecocontact5
    Custom Mirage products: Cruise control kit, Glove box light, MAF sensor housing, Rear sway bar, Upper grill block

    Current project: DIY Nitrous oxide setup for ~$100

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage DE 1.2 manual: 47.2 mpg (US) ... 20.1 km/L ... 5.0 L/100 km ... 56.7 mpg (Imp)


  12. #19
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    Trying to improve my forum thread etiquette -

    These LRR tires were brought up today in another thread -

    165 65 14 Federal Gio Eco tires. $185 after discount.

    https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F362568380924

    Has anyone used the Federal Formoza Gio? They are offered in a 165/65-14 factory size. They are reasonably priced & may have some LRR qualities.

    Walmart has been offering the Federal SS-657 for $41.07 for a few weeks now.

    https://www.walmart.com/search/?quer...&typeahead=165

    Has anyone used both the SS-657 & Formoza Gio? If so, have you noticed a difference?

  13. #20
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    I was looking at tires recently to see what I might buy in the future. I found these tires at TireRack.

    Vredestein Quatrac 5

    https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...E&autoModClar=

    They have great reviews on TireRack and Consumer Reports. Consumer Reports gave them an "Excellent" rating for rolling resistance. They are considered "All Weather" and not just "All Season" tires. "The three-peak mountain snowflake (3PMSF) symbol branded on a tire's sidewall indicates the tire meets required performance criteria in snow testing to be considered severe snow service-rated."

    I think I might get these after my tires wear out. The price isn't bad either, compared to the Dunlop's.



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