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Thread: Low Heat Output - New Heater Core Denied

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    Senior Member Top_Fuel's Avatar
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    Low Heat Output - New Heater Core Denied

    EDIT - If you aren't familiar with the heater core issues in 2014-2015 Mirages, see the PDF attached to the bottom of this post. This is an explanation/summary of the issue complete with pictures and diagrams.


    Grab a beverage. This is a long story.

    My 2015 Mirage has a borderline case of low heat output. I first realized it over a year ago after Doax posted this thread about the issue in his 2014.

    If you haven’t been paying attention, this problem involves a restriction inside the OEM heater core resulting in a lack of heat output that’s only obvious when it’s really cold outside. One of the first signs people notice is that the driver’s side instrument panel vent/floor/defroster output is hot/warm while the passenger side is warm/cool. If you never feel the heat output on the passenger side, you may have no idea your car may have the problem until it's so bad the driver’s side doesn’t put out much heat. By the time you realize this you might be out of warranty! Did I mention that this repair probably costs about $1,000 at the dealer?

    So back to the story…

    Compared to Doax, my car has a mild case of the problem. When it’s 20F outside, I get 145 degrees from the driver’s side and maybe 120 from the passenger side. That’s good enough to keep the car comfortable 99% of the winter. It was a -4 today on my way to work, and the passenger side output barely reached 105, while the driver side crept up slowly to 130. On a day like today, the heat output is not adequate on the passenger side.

    My warranty was literally 200 miles away from running out, so I took my car in for this complaint last week even though it was in the 30s outside (the colder it is, the easier it is to see the problem). I had a 1-page detail sheet I gave to the service advisor with specific instructions on how to duplicate the issue. It had pictures and everything. Even a service advisor couldn’t mess this up, right? I also asked them to call the Tech Line if they had never seen this condition in a Mirage.

    I get a call later that afternoon from the dealer and sure enough…they can’t duplicate the temperatures I have observed multiple times during my own testing. Oh boy…here we go. It turns out they just let the car idle in their shop…where it’s 70 degrees. Then they just drove it around the block and said all the vents were 120. I knew from that low number the car wasn’t even warmed up. So I told them to take it for a 30 minute drive and try again the next day.

    The next day comes and I get the same response from the dealer. All vents are now 140 on a 30 minute test drive when the outside temp is 30F (my passenger side vent couldn't reach 140 if you set the car on fire ). Oh…and they said the Tech Line says that “Some temperature variation from the vents is characteristic of the Mirage.” So at this point, they don’t see a problem and the Tech Line says it’s probably normal. I can pick the car up now and pay their $120 diagnostic fee. I told them to keep the car while I called Mitsubishi Customer Support and voice my concern.

    I called the 1-800 number and explained what is going on. The person on the phone (just a normal Customer Service Rep) opened a case for me and assigned an advisor to my case. The advisor calls me the next day (from California) and we have a brief 10 minute conversation about the issue. I gave him a lot of details but didn’t make any demands. I tell him that I can live with the condition as it is now, but I need some assurance that I won’t have to deal with this if gets worse by next winter.

    So he calls the Tech Line and then the dealership and gets their story. He calls me back within an hour. We have another pleasant 10 minute conversation. He creates some internal Mitsubishi case number and gives it to me, and then assures me that because I have brought the issue to their attention within my warranty period, I will be covered if the condition worsens. All of the details are linked with the case number.

    Honestly, that’s all I wanted in the first place. I wasn’t looking forward to this dealer doing a heater core in my car. They have not done a heater core replacement in a Mirage yet…so mine would be the first! So I’m happy, and I think they treated me better because I didn’t call them demanding that new parts be thrown at my car. I think they know there’s a problem, but they aren’t throwing heater cores into cars until the problem is so bad that it’s even obvious to a service advisor.

    One interesting thing the service department did that they didn’t tell me about (the Mitsubishi Advisor told me this). The Tech Line told them to try this same vent temperature test on another Mirage. Apparently they had a 2015 in the shop or on the used car lot. They tested it and said it has a 20+ degree variation from right to left and output temps close to my car. The Mitsubishi Customer Advisor asked me what I thought about that. I said…I’m not shocked at all by that. It just means both cars have the problem! Then I said that replacing the heater core clearly makes the issue go away as documented by Doax…and gave him some more data from the forum. He seemed satisfied at that point that I wasn’t completely crazy. He tells me to pick up the car, and there's no charge.

    So the bottom line is that my car is out of warranty…but the coverage on my heater core lives on.

    My advice to anyone who lives in a cold climate is to check your vent output temps and keep track of them! Based on my testing this year vs last year, the problem in my car is slowly getting worse. My vent temps are about 10 degrees lower this year than they were last year (all other testing conditions being the same). If they are another 10 degrees lower this time next year, I will have no trouble convincing the service manager that this is not normal for a Mirage.

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    Last edited by Top_Fuel; 01-20-2021 at 03:27 PM.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 52.2 mpg (US) ... 22.2 km/L ... 4.5 L/100 km ... 62.6 mpg (Imp)


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    01-7700 (01-22-2019),Car Nut (01-24-2019),Cobrajet (01-22-2019),Daox (01-22-2019),fifteenwindow (01-24-2019),MetroMPG (01-25-2019)

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    The good news - dealerships aren't replacing multiple heater cores in Mirages yet. The bad news - Mirage heater cores may need to be replaced after a bumper-to-bumper warranty is up. Good information for all of us. Thanks for sharing!

    2nd generation Honda CRV vehicles were known for their after warranty exploding A/C compressors. When the word "exploding" is used to describe something that's usually not good, unless you are testing bombs or hand grenades!

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    If I understand the mail from BASF (World's largest chemical maker) correctly,

    we should switch our coolant fluid to Glysantin G64 or equivalent, in order to prevent the heater core clogging in the first place!

    You can read their mail in post number 302 of this thread:

    https://mirageforum.com/forum/showth...-issue)/page31

    If you live in the Americas, please do look at post 304 of the same thread.
    Would somebody in the states please find out and post the USA (Zerex-) designation for G64?
    Last edited by foama; 01-22-2019 at 09:49 AM.

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    Senior Member Top_Fuel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by foama View Post
    If you live in the Americas, please do look at post 304 of the same thread.
    I specifically remember reading that when you posted it. I am going to bring this to their attention so it gets back to the Tech Line guys.

    I can only assume that by now Mitsubishi has cut open some of the replaced heater cores and knows exactly what this substance is. Here's a pic of Doax's heater core for those who haven't seen it...

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    There must not be an easy way to flush that material out. Because that would be an easy fix compared to replacing the heater core.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 52.2 mpg (US) ... 22.2 km/L ... 4.5 L/100 km ... 62.6 mpg (Imp)


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    Administrator Daox's Avatar
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    Doh, that stinks. Yeah, your temperature variance is certainly not normal. But, at least they'll honor the warranty for next year.
    Custom Mirage products: Cruise control kit, Glove box light, MAF sensor housing, Rear sway bar, Upper grill block

    Current project: DIY Nitrous oxide setup for ~$100

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage DE 1.2 manual: 47.2 mpg (US) ... 20.1 km/L ... 5.0 L/100 km ... 56.7 mpg (Imp)


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    I would like to get my hands on that gunk, and send it to BASF/Glysantin for their opinion!

    Is the stuff so solid, it can't be flushed out by a gardening hose at full blast?

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    Administrator Daox's Avatar
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    When I first took it apart, the gel was not quite as thick as petroleum jelly (vaseline). So, its fairly solid. I had tried to flush it out the year before I did the heater core replacement. It barely improved things.
    Custom Mirage products: Cruise control kit, Glove box light, MAF sensor housing, Rear sway bar, Upper grill block

    Current project: DIY Nitrous oxide setup for ~$100

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage DE 1.2 manual: 47.2 mpg (US) ... 20.1 km/L ... 5.0 L/100 km ... 56.7 mpg (Imp)


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    Still Plays With Cars Loren's Avatar
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    My bet is that somewhere along the line, someone has added some of the wrong type of coolant to your car. I never bothered to memorize the details, but there are certain combinations that are known to "gel" when mixed.

    "Mixing different coolants together does not boost their benefits. For example adding OAT/HOAT to a IAT coolant does not provide the IAT coolant with a longer life, however it cancels OAT/HOAT benefits and makes the mixed concoction only good up to a maximum of 2 years or less in some cases. Also it is believed by some that mixing coolants in a radiator might lead to coolant gelling in the right unfortunate circumstances."

    https://fuelandfriction.com/weekend-...rs-of-coolant/

    Personally, I never add any coolant unless there's some kind of leak. If I'm "topping off", I use distilled water. If I'm "replacing", I thoroughly flush the system and make sure I'm using the type of coolant that is specified for the car.

    And... I try to avoid taking my car anywhere that some minimum wage trainee is going to have access to my car and think they're doing me a favor by topping off my coolant, or anything else.
    Simplify and add lightness.

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    Senior Member Top_Fuel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loren View Post
    My bet is that somewhere along the line, someone has added some of the wrong type of coolant to your car.
    That would normally be a plausible explanation. But I bought my car new and I've never added anything to my radiator except a shot-glass full of distilled water. And my car has never been serviced by anyone other than me. I think the same thing goes for others who have the same problem.

    An interesting note to my experience. No one ever asked me if any coolant had ever been added to the radiator...which seems odd. I'm convinced they know the cause, but it makes economic sense to run out the clock on 5/60 warranties instead of acknowledging the problem now. Kind of like the rear axle issue.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 52.2 mpg (US) ... 22.2 km/L ... 4.5 L/100 km ... 62.6 mpg (Imp)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Fuel View Post
    That would normally be a plausible explanation. But I bought my car new and I've never added anything to my radiator except a shot-glass full of distilled water. And my car has never been serviced by anyone other than me. I think the same thing goes for others who have the same problem.

    An interesting note to my experience. No one ever asked me if any coolant had ever been added to the radiator...which seems odd. I'm convinced they know the cause, but it makes economic sense to run out the clock on 5/60 warranties instead of acknowledging the problem now. Kind of like the rear axle issue.
    It's good to know you haven't added anything different to your cooling system. The pics I have seen of this problem have come from Daox. Daox bought his car used with quite a few miles on it. I doubt he knows the complete service history of his car.

    Whether Loren is right or wrong, I feel his suggestion to not mix different types of coolant is a good one. I feel your warning to check one's interior heat output prior to an expired warranty is also great! I appreciate the discussion on this topic.



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