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Thread: Looking hard at a new 2018 ES. Questions inside.(UPDATE: bought one!)

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    Looking hard at a new 2018 ES. Questions inside.(UPDATE: bought one!)

    Hello everyone! I've been thinking about buying my first and likely last new car ever. At 45 years old and having spent all of those years driving cars that cost around 2000 dollars used, I felt like maybe it was time to get a real ride. The Mirage is about the only car new that interests me as I love max fuel mileage and compact size cars.

    I have read about new mirages going for 9000, but around here there was no such animal to be found. I did finally find a decent dealer a few hours away that has a good pile of 18's still in stock. The one I like is a Infra red 18 ES with the CVT.

    They have been made a decent offer of $12501 out the door with tax tag and title. But I still feel like that's a bit high. I was hoping for 11500, but it seems like it's not going to happen.

    Is this a decent deal? They also have the same color car in SE package with all the upgrades for 14K out the door, but that felt really high.

    Opinions on the price and the car in general are welcome!



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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrfixit View Post
    Hello everyone! I've been thinking about buying my first and likely last new car ever. At 45 years old and having spent all of those years driving cars that cost around 2000 dollars used, I felt like maybe it was time to get a real ride. The Mirage is about the only car new that interests me as I love max fuel mileage and compact size cars.

    I have read about new mirages going for 9000, but around here there was no such animal to be found. I did finally find a decent dealer a few hours away that has a good pile of 18's still in stock. The one I like is a Infra red 18 ES with the CVT.

    They have been made a decent offer of $12501 out the door with tax tag and title. But I still feel like that's a bit high. I was hoping for 11500, but it seems like it's not going to happen.

    Is this a decent deal? They also have the same color car in SE package with all the upgrades for 14K out the door, but that felt really high.

    Opinions on the price and the car in general are welcome!
    Hello Mrfixit and welcome to the forum.

    We have a lot in common. I too drove used cars and worked on them to keep them running. It's nice to get a new car in your driveway that you only have to do simple maintenance to keep it going. This forum really helped my decision to get one. From owner's perspectives, it's a good car - so long as you understand it's a basic economy car. It's a beautiful thing.

    I think you got a fairly decent price on that 2018. Personally, I'd go with a stick rather than a CVT.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 49.6 mpg (US) ... 21.1 km/L ... 4.7 L/100 km ... 59.5 mpg (Imp)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrfixit View Post
    They have made a decent offer of $12501 out the door with tax tag and title.
    Commenting on out-the-door numbers can be confusing because sales tax and license fees vary depending on the state where you live.

    What is the actual price of the car without sales tax and license fees?

    And a related question because it will come up...

    Is there any reason you are looking at a Mirage with a CVT instead of a 5-speed model?

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 52.2 mpg (US) ... 22.2 km/L ... 4.5 L/100 km ... 62.6 mpg (Imp)


  4. #4
    Welcome!

    Question: any particular reason you're interested in the CVT? If max mpg is your goal, the manual will return better or equal real world numbers in the hands of a slightly motivated driver. And it'll probably outlast the automatic, if you're planning to keep it a long time.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 63.2 mpg (US) ... 26.9 km/L ... 3.7 L/100 km ... 75.9 mpg (Imp)


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    Quote Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
    Welcome!

    Question: any particular reason you're interested in the CVT? If max mpg is your goal, the manual will return better or equal real world numbers in the hands of a slightly motivated driver. And it'll probably outlast the automatic, if you're planning to keep it a long time.

    I've always driven manual trans cars. But they are telling me that the CVT gets better mileage. The 2003 Toyota Echo Coupe I drive now has a 5-speed and I get 40 to 42 combined miles per gallon. I'd hate to drop that down with lower numbers. Plus, to be honest I sometimes wish for a auto when stuck in traffic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrfixit View Post
    I've always driven manual trans cars. But they are telling me that the CVT gets better mileage. The 2003 Toyota Echo Coupe I drive now has a 5-speed and I get 40 to 42 combined miles per gallon. I'd hate to drop that down with lower numbers. Plus, to be honest I sometimes wish for a auto when stuck in traffic.
    This forum has a couple of features that I find pretty helpful.

    One is a Garage where members can post info about their Mirages - their modifications and such.

    The other is a Fuel Economy Log, where we can keep track of and show off our results for all to see.

    Links to each can be found at the top of each page served. If you look at the Fuel Economy Log, most manuals beat CVTs in fuel economy in the hands of a careful driver. If you can get 40-42 in an Echo, I'm sure you'll be looking at 50 mpg in a manual Mirage in good weather. And I find the Mirage manual transmission and clutch to be super easy to drive - probably the easiest I've driven.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 49.6 mpg (US) ... 21.1 km/L ... 4.7 L/100 km ... 59.5 mpg (Imp)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrfixit View Post
    I've always driven manual trans cars. But they are telling me that the CVT gets better mileage. The 2003 Toyota Echo Coupe I drive now has a 5-speed and I get 40 to 42 combined miles per gallon. I'd hate to drop that down with lower numbers. Plus, to be honest I sometimes wish for a auto when stuck in traffic.
    DO NOT LISTEN TO WHAT THEY ARE TELLING YOU.

    Get the 5spd!!!! It makes the whole ownership experience far better.

    Sorry to say this but if a manual was not available, I would NOT even own my two mirages.
    The CVT is the one part that I dont trust long term in this car, and there have been some failures from members on this board. Not a single manual failure though.

    If you are up for the adventure of a road trip, why not pen a deal with the dealer up here in MN and drive one home?
    The cost of a one way ticket to Msp would probably be like 150.00 tops. They sell them for 9k for base models.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pryme View Post
    DO NOT LISTEN TO WHAT THEY ARE TELLING YOU.

    Get the 5spd!!!! It makes the whole ownership experience far better.

    Sorry to say this but if a manual was not available, I would NOT even own my two mirages.
    The CVT is the one part that I dont trust long term in this car, and there have been some failures from members on this board. Not a single manual failure though.

    If you are up for the adventure of a road trip, why not pen a deal with the dealer up here in MN and drive one home?
    The cost of a one way ticket to Msp would probably be like 150.00 tops. They sell them for 9k for base models.
    Why does the CVT get so much hate? I test drove a new one and one with 40K on it here in the mountains and found it to have pleanty of power. The stick I test drove had a very very light clutch pedal. It was quite unlike any other manual I had ever driven and was a bit of a turn off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrfixit View Post
    Why does the CVT get so much hate? I test drove a new one and one with 40K on it here in the mountains and found it to have pleanty of power. The stick I test drove had a very very light clutch pedal. It was quite unlike any other manual I had ever driven and was a bit of a turn off.
    The light clutch is what I like about the manual transmission the most. I think it would be ideal to teach new drivers, too.

    It is a preference. If you like the CVT and find it suitable to your needs, great. I think most drivers see it as the CVT lends to slow response to the accelerator, and the manual tends to be quicker responding. I like rowing my own gears but I can definitely see not wanting to anymore. In addition, there have been no reports of manual transmission failure here on the forum. There's been two clutch problems, but I am inclined to see those as either due to hard or inexperienced use.

    For the current EPA test cycle, the CVT gets better fuel economy numbers. In the hands of an experienced and motivated driver, the manual will easily outperform the CVT.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 49.6 mpg (US) ... 21.1 km/L ... 4.7 L/100 km ... 59.5 mpg (Imp)


  11. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Mrfixit View Post
    Why does the CVT get so much hate? I test drove a new one and one with 40K on it here in the mountains and found it to have pleanty of power.
    I don't hate the CVT.

    Performance, as you say, is adequate. Plus it makes for super quiet & relaxed cruising when it drops the engine revs WAY down after you've finished accelerating (flip-side: it can be super raucous when you stick your foot in it). It's remarkably fuel efficient for an automatic. And it's more interesting to drive than a traditional slushbox automatic.

    BUT... the handful of transmission failures we're seeing here and elsewhere (CVT's in general) has caused me to stop recommending them to any friend or family member that must drive an automatic, and plans to keep the car for a long time. That's for any car - not just the Mirage.


        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 63.2 mpg (US) ... 26.9 km/L ... 3.7 L/100 km ... 75.9 mpg (Imp)


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