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Thread: Auto stop@go recall. Side effects

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    Auto stop&go recall. Side effects

    Today my Space Star got a firmware update due to the AS&G recall. On my way back (about 50km) I saw the AS&G light went on later than I was used to. That was to be expected.

    More interesting was the economy gauge. I got 26.3km/L on my way home (mostly highway), while I got 22.5km/L on my way out. The garage is about 60 meters higher than my home, so a bit better economy is to be expected, but not more than about 1km/L. Actually I can not recall ever to have seen the economy gauge higher than 26km/L, and the conditions were not optimal (5C, a bit rainy, highway).

    So what happened? Is the car more economical, or is the gauge less accurate? The 'B' gauge used to be about 3% too pessimistic, so I think the 'A' gauge had the same aberration. If the economy didn't change, I guess the gauge is now 12% too optimistic. (26.3 where I expected about 23.3)

    The future will tell.


    Last edited by Space Wolf; 03-13-2019 at 08:20 AM.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2013 Space Star Cleartec Intense 1.0 manual: 53.9 mpg (US) ... 22.9 km/L ... 4.4 L/100 km ... 64.7 mpg (Imp)


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    The future has spoken. Between 13-3 and 10-4 my car drove 1805 km, using 74L, which is 24.4km/L (57.4mpg). About the same period last year, between 11-3 and 16-4, it was 2226 km, using 100.4L, which is 22.2km/L, 52.2mpg.

    Based on this numbers, the car is 10% more economical. So what happened? I have a list of hypotheses:

    1. Mitsubishi actually managed to provide a firmware update which gives a 10% higher economy.
    2. There is some self learning algorithm in the motor management, which adapts to the drive style of the owner, This has been reset, and my style is different than that of the previous owner.
    3. There is some self learning algorithm, which adapts to the actual engine parameters. This has been reset, and the parameters have changed as function of the wear.
    4. The firmware update has changed the accuracy of the odometer, on which both the internal economy gauge as my calculations are based.


    Thinking about 1, I can say that AFAIK this was the first firmware update the car ever got. It's probably manufactured in the end of 2012, when the car was only about 6 months in production. So maybe such a jump is possible.
    2. When such an algorithm exists, I would expect it to be adapting itself continuously. Meanwhile I have made more kilometers than the previous owner, so I wouldn't expect such a jump on resetting the algorithm.
    3. About the same as 2.
    4. I don't think so. Nearby is some speed indicator at the side of the road, which tells how fast you are driving (to stimulate to comply with the speed limit). The speed indicator of my car was and is on par with this sign. I think I would have noticed a difference of 10%.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2013 Space Star Cleartec Intense 1.0 manual: 53.9 mpg (US) ... 22.9 km/L ... 4.4 L/100 km ... 64.7 mpg (Imp)


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    Temperatures can also have an impact on fuel consumption on these cars.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 49.8 mpg (US) ... 21.2 km/L ... 4.7 L/100 km ... 59.8 mpg (Imp)


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    What was the claimed reason for the auto stop&go recall?
    Custom Mirage products: Cruise control kit, Glove box light, MAF sensor housing, Rear sway bar, Upper grill block

    Current project: DIY Nitrous oxide setup for ~$100

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage DE 1.2 manual: 45.4 mpg (US) ... 19.3 km/L ... 5.2 L/100 km ... 54.6 mpg (Imp)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Eggman View Post
    Temperatures can also have an impact on fuel consumption on these cars.
    Ah, hypothese #5. According to the KNMI (Royal Dutch Meteorological Institute), the mean temperature in March 2018 was 5.0C, while in 2019 it was 8.2C. (source). Numbers of April this year are not yet available. (Fortunately. If they were I would start to doubt about my mental health).
    So yes, this year it was a bit warmer. Not much, but I know also wind and rain can have serious impact. Need more data.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daox View Post
    What was the claimed reason for the auto stop&go recall?
    A bug in the algorithm, which made the system to shutdown the engine under circumstances where it couldn't be started instantaneous again. (Engine not warm enough, too cold environment, ...)

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2013 Space Star Cleartec Intense 1.0 manual: 53.9 mpg (US) ... 22.9 km/L ... 4.4 L/100 km ... 64.7 mpg (Imp)


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    More data. On 30 march I have reset my B gauge, on a fuel station. Today on a fuel station I have read it out. 25.5km/L. In that period my car has driven 2496km, using 98.2L, which is 25.4km/L. So it appears the gauge is still reliable, and I assume that then the A gauge is reliable too.

    So the amazing numbers I see are real.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2013 Space Star Cleartec Intense 1.0 manual: 53.9 mpg (US) ... 22.9 km/L ... 4.4 L/100 km ... 64.7 mpg (Imp)


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    Even more data. My previous post contains a math error. The amount of fuel used was not 98.2L, but 101.6L. Which is enough to lower the economy to 24.6km/L.

    Meanwhile I have next measurements after the B-gauge reset:
    km km/L B-gauge km/L calculated
    2496 25.5 24.6
    3740 25.3 24.7
    4980 25.3 24.8

    So at them moment my economy gauge is 0.5km/L optimistic, while it was 0.7 pessimistic before the update. Which gives a jump of 1.2km/L in reported economy. And maybe that was even worse directly after the reset, as the economy gauche seems to be adapting itself.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2013 Space Star Cleartec Intense 1.0 manual: 53.9 mpg (US) ... 22.9 km/L ... 4.4 L/100 km ... 64.7 mpg (Imp)


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    Junior Member smiba's Avatar
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    The update has definitely changed more then just the Stop&Go behaviour, not sure its has been an improvement for me.

    I see the S&G light come on later and the car is way more likely to go out of Stop&Go for no obvious reason, in low-ish temperatures (8-18C) it now very often switches between being able to Stop&Go or keeping the engine running. Before the update the Stop&Go behaviour was much more predictable and less moving back and forth.
    I'd say a good 15% of the Stop&Go events are followed by the car turning the engine back on before the traffic light has turned green again (which may be less then 10 seconds of having the engine stopped)

    The engine itself seems to react differently as well, it feels to me like motor management is sometimes more in control then I am. Slowly been getting used to it but its sometimes still not fully reacting the way I would've expected it.
    For example, after the update running it idle in 1st or 2nd gear makes the car shake (and move between 800 and 1000 RPM between each shake, like its almost choking itself and trying to recover). Possibly the car needs to idle itself at a very slightly higher RPM? Just pressing the gas every so slightly makes it run stable at low RPM

    Can you relate to this or is it just my car?

    Quote Originally Posted by Space Wolf View Post
    A bug in the algorithm, which made the system to shutdown the engine under circumstances where it couldn't be started instantaneous again. (Engine not warm enough, too cold environment, ...)
    Wasn't it mostly to blame on the system not being able to detect a under voltage event in time? Allowing to S&G on a bad battery or to keep the S&G going while the battery would move below its proper voltage to guarantee startup. At least that's what I remember, don't take my word for it.
    Last edited by smiba; 07-05-2019 at 10:06 PM.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Space-Star 1.0 manual: 48.8 mpg (US) ... 20.8 km/L ... 4.8 L/100 km ... 58.6 mpg (Imp)


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    Quote Originally Posted by smiba View Post
    Can you relate to this or is it just my car?
    I don't recognize it. The S&G was only unpredictable in the first few days after the update. I think it had to calibrate itself, but after a week or so it behaved like it always did. Maybe the S&G light switches on a bit later, but not much. In most cases it's on before the green temperature light switches off.

    The idling is smooth. The only problem with the engine I have is that sometimes, when driving away from a traffic light, or something like that, it reacts a bit slow. The car is rolling, but just doesn't want to accelerate for 1 or 2 seconds. A bit awkward when you are trying to insert. But I think that was also the case before the update. I have the impression it doesn't happen when I actually use S&G, instead of idling.

    The only enduring difference I notice is the different behaviour of the economy gauge.

    And maybe one more thing. When the engine is stopped with S&G, and someone opens the trunk, it starts. That's weird, and I can't think of a reason for it. But I'm not sure it didn't happen before the update. It is possible the combination just never happened.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2013 Space Star Cleartec Intense 1.0 manual: 53.9 mpg (US) ... 22.9 km/L ... 4.4 L/100 km ... 64.7 mpg (Imp)


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    Quote Originally Posted by smiba View Post
    Can you relate to this or is it just my car?
    I don't have AS&G but your symptoms bring to mind some fuel delivery problems. If only as a regular maintenance check visually inspect your air filter's condition and use a high quality fuel system cleaner (such as Techron if it is available) at your next fill up. It's cheap and good maintenance. But don't expect good results from bargain fuel system cleaners, and don't expect a fuel octane booster to perform as a cleaner either.

    If you are still having problems, take it back to the dealer that did the work and explain your symptoms and steps taken. In my opinion, there's no need to spend more time on it.

    Just a thought for some inexpensive steps to take. Hopefully others can chime in with their thoughts. But I'm not certain your symptoms are due to AS&G exclusively.


        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 49.8 mpg (US) ... 21.2 km/L ... 4.7 L/100 km ... 59.8 mpg (Imp)


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