Oil for a mirage

[ed100]

I’ve switched over to 5w30 synthetic. The car was using some oil with the 0w20. Not like a sieve but noticeable. Much better now. I must have gotten one of the slightly imperfect engines.

[Eggman]

This whole environmental thing really has gotten out of hand. A friend of mine drives a pickup truck with a big V8 engine. Guess what weight oil the book says to use. The answer is the same as our little 3 cylinder cars. 0W20 in a V8!

That's because testing has shown that 0W-20 provides proper protection. Blackstone Labs wrote an article about using 0W-20 in an old (70s or 80s) engine with no negative impact. The benefits go beyond reducing emissions.

[stevedmc]

That's because testing has shown that 0W-20 provides proper protection. Blackstone Labs wrote an article about using 0W-20 in an old (70s or 80s) engine with no negative impact. The benefits go beyond reducing emissions.

And how many miles did Blackstone labs drive the old engine with 0w20? Does 0w20 even have the proper amount of zinc for an engine of that era?

[Pryme]

That's because testing has shown that 0W-20 provides proper protection. Blackstone Labs wrote an article about using 0W-20 in an old (70s or 80s) engine with no negative impact. The benefits go beyond reducing emissions.

The fact that other countries recommend 5w30 should tell you something.

[stevedmc]

Amen. You’d have to be out of your damn mind to put 0w20 in a cast iron Ford engine.

My 1985 F150 with a straight 6 engine always gets Shell Rotella 15w40. Zinc is very important in an old engine.

[Pryme]

Keep in mind that you only need a shade over 3 quarts with these cars, not five. So two 5 gallon jugs will mean three oil changes with a little left over. If you look at it that way then the cost of the 0w-20 isn't so bad. Personally, I don't cheap out on oil or use what isn't recommended since these cars require so very little in terms of maintenance.

Saving a couple bucks running the wrong oil just isn't worth it to me, but others who have used oil of other weights and compositions have reported no problems.

5 quart. Not 5 gallons is what I'm guessing you meant!

[Eggman]

And how many miles did Blackstone labs drive the old engine with 0w20? Does 0w20 even have the proper amount of zinc for an engine of that era?

I can't find the report where the old engine was driven on 0W-20, so I must have made that up. However, I did find this article that focuses on thinner oils.

Blackstone Labs | The Oil Report February 2017

Viscosity: Going Down! by Ryan Stark

...After a bit of reflection on the changes in the oil industry, I’ve decided that one of the best ones has been the trend to lower viscosity oils.

The thin oil trend
...
Then, in the early 2000s I noticed that we were starting to see a lot of samples from Ford V-8 engines that were running 5W/20 oil. This was a bit of a surprise since that’s pretty thin oil, but it was hard to argue with the results. Those engines produced some of the best wear we would see on a regular basis, so it quickly became obvious to me that this was a change for the better. And if you think about it, it makes sense.

Wear at start-up
For years, it was taken as fact by a lot of people that most of the wear in an engine happens at start-up. Now I haven’t done any studies myself to see if that was true, but that statement didn’t seem out of line from what I know about engines. So assuming it’s true, why would just starting an engine cause wear? Well, I believe the answer is the oil isn’t flowing over all of the parts like it does shortly after start-up. I do know that engines have virtually no metals parts touching one another without a thin film of oil providing a lubrication barrier, at least once oil pressure has been established. I also know that thin oil pumps easier than thick oil, so it seems obvious that the quicker you can get the oil to the parts, the less wear an engine will produce. From then on I was sold on thin oil. So what’s the problem here? Well, when I first started at Blackstone, I was told that thick oil is good for the bearings, and I didn’t have cause to doubt that statement until I saw these Ford V-8s producing virtually no wear, and I knew some of them were work trucks that were hauling heavy loads. So could it be that the bearings didn’t need thick oil to survive? The answer is a resounding yes.

Even for diesels?
That trend toward thinner oil has proven true everywhere except for diesel engines. For years and years and even today, the oil of choice in a diesel has been 15W/40. But, if a heavy-duty gas engine can run light oil, why can’t a diesel? We would occasionally see diesel samples from Alaska that were running 5W/30 and they would look fine, so why not use it down here in the lower 48? In colder weather, it was acceptable for diesel to run thin oil, but that really only matters on start-up. But the oil doesn’t get thicker as it heats up -- it thins out. So could it be that thin oil does fine even when it get gets up to operating temperature? The answer to me was another resounding yes, and I wondered when the day would come that 15W/40 would no longer be the manufacturer’s choice for diesel engines. Well, that time has come!

Today we are starting to see more diesel fleets going to 10W/30, and I’m here to tell you that this change is good. Not only will the bearings do just fine, but the engines will start up better (especially in the cold). And this change might eliminate the need for plugging your diesel in at night. Now, there will always be some people who are resistant to change. In fact there are whole countries that are. The German vehicle manufacturers have yet to embrace thin oil, though I think that change will happen some day.

Yes, change is good and I have yet to see a change happen that leaves hundreds of thousands of vehicles stuck along the side of the road. The sulfur has been virtually removed from diesel fuel and your old tractor still runs fine.* Additive levels have been lowered in engine oil and the old flat-tappet engines still run great. And now thinner oils are here to stay. I’m excited to see what the changes the next 20 years might bring and I believe that I’ll embrace it, unless it involves getting rid of oil altogether!

Follow the link to read the entire contents.

Ryan, the author of the article, sees good results of trying thinner oil, and he's seen thousands upon thousands of samples.

Another helpful source of information on engine oil is Motor Oil University at the BITOG forum. There viscosity is discussed, particularly the importance of flow and thin(ner) oils. Emphasis is placed on cold viscosity. Read the series for yourself, as it will do a better job explaining than I can.

It's your car, and your decision on what to fill the engine with. I'm only posting this information to illustrate that the belief that thin oil is bad ain't necessarily so. If you are curious, follow up with some regular testing to see how a different oil works.

[Eggman]

The fact that other countries recommend 5w30 should tell you something.

I'll credit that viscosity recommendation to the temperatures the car will be operating in, as found in the Owner's Manual. But I'm curious - which countries are recommending 5W-30 for the Mirage? I would be surprised if they experience regular cold temperatures as we have here in North America.

For stevedmc, I'm sure it will work out just fine. He doesn't experience as many cold starts for all the highway miles he puts on his Mirage. For someone in Wisconsin who may have shorter commutes, that thicker oil might not be the best choice.

Because little details can make a big difference.

[Mark]

I'll credit that viscosity recommendation to the temperatures the car will be operating in, as found in the Owner's Manual. But I'm curious - which countries are recommending 5W-30 for the Mirage? I would be surprised if they experience regular cold temperatures as we have here in North America.

For stevedmc, I'm sure it will work out just fine. He doesn't experience as many cold starts for all the highway miles he puts on his Mirage. For someone in Wisconsin who may have shorter commutes, that thicker oil might not be the best choice.

Because little details can make a big difference.

What type of oil do you think people have been using in Wisconsin for decades?

According a source (2012 Consumer Reports article) that I read (quote below), 0W-20 synthetic oil made up less than 1% of the oil market in 2012. I've been changing my own oil for multiple decades, & I never even heard/noticed 0W-20 oil until 2013. That was when I bought my used 2011 Forester.

"While such low-viscosity oil had been limited to high-end and European cars just a few years ago, Linden says Japanese automakers have recently approved the use of ultra-thin motor oils, spreading the requirement to more popular cars. Even still, 0W-20 currently makes up less than 1 percent of oil sales according to George Morvey, an energy project manager at Kline consulting, up from almost nothing three years ago."

https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...cars/index.htm


I am not saying 0W-20 synthetic is not a great winter oil. It may be the best, but I've only been using it for the past 5-6 years.

I have never had a problem with 5W-30 oil used year round in Wisconsin in any of my past vehicles. I wish that I could say the same about my first 0W-20 vehicle. It's had more issues than all the others combined. I do have more confidence in my Mirage, but that confidence is not based on the use of 0W-20 synthetic oil.

At this point, I am not convinced car companies are cranking out spectacular products. I would pick a 2000-05 model Honda/Toyota over anything on the market today. Not because they are necessarily better, but because they are proven!

There is a lot junk being sold on the market, & people are paying a lot of money for it. Just the other day someone told me they only have 55,000 miles on their Dodge Ram (Hemi engine) pickup, & it's already on its third transmission. Its most difficult job is hauling a cattle trailer to town a couple times a year. It's not an overworked truck.

I'm just not really impressed with much these days, but I do like my cheap little Mirage!

[Mark]

In reference to the original posting in this thread, I really don't think it matters what type of oil you use (0W-20, 5W-20, 5W-30, synthetical, conventional, etc...). You apparently don't drive much. I would be more concerned about changing your oil more regularly than what you decide to put in it.

If you purchased your Mirage new, your 10-year/100,000 powertrain warranty is most likely voided by waiting 3-years to do an oil change anyways. Most conventional/synthetic oils on the market today are pretty good. If replacing your oil with an expensive synthetic is going to make you feel like it has to stay in there for an extended period of time (year or more), I would go with something you're more willing to change out more frequently.

I am not trying to be critical of the time period of first oil change. I just feel reducing that time period may be way more important than your oil choice.

Steve is doing OK (no engine leaks or burning oil) with 5W-30 conventional oil changed every 5,000 miles.

Just curious? Anyone else have anywhere near 245,000+ trouble-free miles on their Mirage using 0W-20 synthetic changed every 7,500 miles? If so, how's your Mirage doing?