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Thread: 2014 Mirage G4 GLS Dead Battery

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    2014 Mirage G4 GLS Dead Battery

    So last week my Mirage did not want to start and when I checked the battery (Motolite Enduro, a local brand in the Philippines) it only had 10.6V volts. I removed it from the engine bay, charged it with my Ctek MXS 5.0 battery charger, and was fully charged successfully. I left it for 3 days in the charger and was at step 7 (maintaining good battery voltage) until I removed it, washed the terminals with baking soda solution, and gave it a nice cold bath to remove any dirt in it. This is a maintenance-free battery, btw. I left it to air dry for a few hours and when I tested the voltage again, it seems to have stayed at 12.6V so I though everything was good.

    I then decided to install it in the car but it still did not start. I forgot to bring my voltmeter with me so I did not know what the voltage was when I installed it in the car.

    Then I had no choice but to buy a new battery today. I went with Amaron and when the delivery guy installed the batt, the car started just fine. I still wanted to test the voltage of the old battery but I didn't get the chance to because it was traded-in during the purchase of the new battery.

    Questions:

    1) With all these observations, does this mean the old battery was really dead? I mean it is already a month shy of 3 years old. We live in a tropical country (Philippines) and people say 3 years is already a long time for a battery life.

    2) Is it worth refilling a maintenance-free battery in hopes of reviving it? I kept thinking "what if" I did this instead of buying a new battery. I'm reading that this is not worth it because you're simply prolonging the inevitable for a few more weeks or so, but still!

    3) I guess a voltage test doesn't give you the whole story, does it? Does one need to do a load test to determine if a battery is really in a good state?



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    Moderator Eggman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevindd992002 View Post
    So last week my Mirage did not want to start and when I checked the battery (Motolite Enduro, a local brand in the Philippines) it only had 10.6V volts. I removed it from the engine bay, charged it with my Ctek MXS 5.0 battery charger, and was fully charged successfully. I left it for 3 days in the charger and was at step 7 (maintaining good battery voltage) until I removed it, washed the terminals with baking soda solution, and gave it a nice cold bath to remove any dirt in it. This is a maintenance-free battery, btw. I left it to air dry for a few hours and when I tested the voltage again, it seems to have stayed at 12.6V so I though everything was good.

    I then decided to install it in the car but it still did not start. I forgot to bring my voltmeter with me so I did not know what the voltage was when I installed it in the car.

    Then I had no choice but to buy a new battery today. I went with Amaron and when the delivery guy installed the batt, the car started just fine. I still wanted to test the voltage of the old battery but I didn't get the chance to because it was traded-in during the purchase of the new battery.

    Questions:

    1) With all these observations, does this mean the old battery was really dead? I mean it is already a month shy of 3 years old. We live in a tropical country (Philippines) and people say 3 years is already a long time for a battery life.
    Your description sounds like a dead battery to me. Keep in mind that warmer temperatures tends to shorten the usable life of lead-acid batteries.

    Quote Originally Posted by kevindd992002 View Post
    2) Is it worth refilling a maintenance-free battery in hopes of reviving it? I kept thinking "what if" I did this instead of buying a new battery. I'm reading that this is not worth it because you're simply prolonging the inevitable for a few more weeks or so, but still!
    You can try it but if the lead plates had enough precipitation, adding water won't revive a dead cell. This is often noticed with high charge current and a warm battery while charging. Did you happen to notice if your battery was warm - almost hot - while charging?

    Quote Originally Posted by kevindd992002 View Post
    3) I guess a voltage test doesn't give you the whole story, does it? Does one need to do a load test to determine if a battery is really in a good state?
    Yes. It is helpful to test a battery while it is loaded such as with lights, accessories and/or starter operating. A voltmeter with Min/Max capture is especially helpful.

    If a new battery has solved your problem, why question it? Is there something else going on? Have you added or changed anything electrical on your Mirage, such as audio, lighting, or video recording? Any of these devices can subject a battery to discharge cycles that will certainly shorten it's life, along with warmer temperature.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 49.5 mpg (US) ... 21.1 km/L ... 4.7 L/100 km ... 59.5 mpg (Imp)


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    Senior Member Cobrajet's Avatar
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    If a new battery solved the problem, then the old battery was probably bad if you had already attempted to revive it. They don't last forever.

    My original battery is going on five years old and I have had no trouble with it (yet). But it is very cool where I live most of the year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eggman View Post
    Your description sounds like a dead battery to me. Keep in mind that warmer temperatures tends to shorten the usable life of lead-acid batteries.
    Yes, I'm aware. That's why the average life of batteries here is 2 to 3 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eggman View Post
    You can try it but if the lead plates had enough precipitation, adding water won't revive a dead cell. This is often noticed with high charge current and a warm battery while charging. Did you happen to notice if your battery was warm - almost hot - while charging?
    No, I did not think about touching the battery while it was charging because it was very very dirty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eggman View Post
    Yes. It is helpful to test a battery while it is loaded such as with lights, accessories and/or starter operating. A voltmeter with Min/Max capture is especially helpful.

    If a new battery has solved your problem, why question it? Is there something else going on? Have you added or changed anything electrical on your Mirage, such as audio, lighting, or video recording? Any of these devices can subject a battery to discharge cycles that will certainly shorten it's life, along with warmer temperature.
    That's what I thought. I should've brought my voltmeter to test these thoroughly as the car was in a different house.

    I'm simply curious as to why the fully-charged battery didn't cut it. And that I simply wanted to test it more but had no choice but to trade it in to get a little bit of discount for my new battery purchase. I'm a car noob and was kinda half expecting that I would get a few more months worth of life from the old battery. Well, the only thing we added was a dashcam that is plugged in the cigarette lighter socket so it's not turned on while the engine is off. Other than that, everything stayed the way they were.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cobrajet View Post
    If a new battery solved the problem, then the old battery was probably bad if you had already attempted to revive it. They don't last forever.

    My original battery is going on five years old and I have had no trouble with it (yet). But it is very cool where I live most of the year.
    Right. Before replacing the battery, I thought other components of the electrical system like the starter fuse can potentially be the culprit but I guess my question's answered when the new battery did start the car successfully.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kevindd992002 View Post
    I'm simply curious as to why the fully-charged battery didn't cut it. And that I simply wanted to test it more but had no choice but to trade it in to get a little bit of discount for my new battery purchase. I'm a car noob and was kinda half expecting that I would get a few more months worth of life from the old battery.
    I don't know much about batteries but have read up about them online from Battery University and such. With that being said, I could be misunderstanding this but I'll try to summarize what I think is happening.

    It is my understanding that almost all lead-acid batteries are lead plates bathed in an acid. While the lead resists the corrosive action of the acid bath, it doesn't last forever. Little bits fall off the lead plates and collect at the bottom of a cell until there is enough to make contact with the lead plate. This is called precipitation. Once this occurs, the cell is considered dead. This is where temperature comes into play - warmer temperatures mean softer lead (I think.) A typical 12 volt battery can be charged in this state, but in a dead-cell condition the other cells will be overcharged and will themselves soon fail. In the overall life of the battery, once one cell is damaged the other cells will soon follow suit.

    There are construction methods for lead-acid batteries that are intended to mitigate this action, such as circular wound cells. Deep cycle batteries are another design intended to fight this. But in the end, the acid bath will win and the battery will need replacement.

    I hope this helps.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 49.5 mpg (US) ... 21.1 km/L ... 4.7 L/100 km ... 59.5 mpg (Imp)


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    Senior Member Dirk Diggler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevindd992002 View Post
    So last week my Mirage did not want to start and when I checked the battery (Motolite Enduro, a local brand in the Philippines) it only had 10.6V volts. I removed it from the engine bay, charged it with my Ctek MXS 5.0 battery charger, and was fully charged successfully. I left it for 3 days in the charger and was at step 7 (maintaining good battery voltage) until I removed it, washed the terminals with baking soda solution, and gave it a nice cold bath to remove any dirt in it. This is a maintenance-free battery, btw. I left it to air dry for a few hours and when I tested the voltage again, it seems to have stayed at 12.6V so I though everything was good.

    I then decided to install it in the car but it still did not start. I forgot to bring my voltmeter with me so I did not know what the voltage was when I installed it in the car.

    Then I had no choice but to buy a new battery today. I went with Amaron and when the delivery guy installed the batt, the car started just fine. I still wanted to test the voltage of the old battery but I didn't get the chance to because it was traded-in during the purchase of the new battery.

    Questions:

    1) With all these observations, does this mean the old battery was really dead? I mean it is already a month shy of 3 years old. We live in a tropical country (Philippines) and people say 3 years is already a long time for a battery life.

    2) Is it worth refilling a maintenance-free battery in hopes of reviving it? I kept thinking "what if" I did this instead of buying a new battery. I'm reading that this is not worth it because you're simply prolonging the inevitable for a few more weeks or so, but still!

    3) I guess a voltage test doesn't give you the whole story, does it? Does one need to do a load test to determine if a battery is really in a good state?
    First thing I did was replace my 5 year old battery at AutoZone with a 35VL Valuecraft for $110 bucks. I brought the old battery first to the dealership and got it tested. They said it was fine for another 6 months, which didnt sound good to me so I pulled the trigger on a new one. One key note, the new battery works fantastic but it was a mother to put in. The technician had to get a longer lock in bar for the back of the battery and it to some finessing to finally get it in. The Fillipino battery was a little shorter than typical American batteries perhaps?

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    Senior Member Cobrajet's Avatar
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    These cars take an odd-sized battery. Some common off-the-shelf batteries are close, but not exactly the same size. There is a thread about it here somewhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobrajet View Post
    These cars take an odd-sized battery. Some common off-the-shelf batteries are close, but not exactly the same size. There is a thread about it here somewhere.
    I used to think the same thing. I will often check for the Mirage Group 35 size battery at the shelves of whatever store I'm at and have found them stocked most every time.

    Based on a recommendation here, I checked my Costco and was surprised not just that they had the correct battery in stock, but they had an ample supply of them on the shelf.

    For a battery that is the correct size for the Mirage and will fit with no modification, and has claimed numbers that will outperform even larger batteries, it is a very good battery at a good price. The cost savings would even help pay for a Costco membership.

    Here's where I found it:
    Quote Originally Posted by MirageSEFan View Post
    If you have a Costco membership, you can get a excellent Interstate Group 35 battery with 800 Cranking Amps, 640 Cold Cranking Amps, and a 3 1/2 year free replacement warranty for only $74.99 (in Central NJ). I just bought one yesterday for my girlfriend's car. I think it's a great deal. See web link below:

    https://costco.interstatebatteries.c...104&Country=US
    My Owner's Manual says the factory battery is a 55D23L (356CCA/99RC). BatteriesPlus.com shows the following replacements for the Group 35 battery:

    Quote Originally Posted by BatteriesPlus.com

    Duracell Ultra Gold Battery for Yuasa 55D23L Replacement $139.99
    Duracell Ultra Battery for Yuasa 55D23L Replacement $119.99
    X2Power Premium AGM Battery for Yuasa 55D23L Replacement $279.99
    Optima Red Top AGM Battery for Yuasa 55D23L Replacement $199.99
    Optima Yellow Top AGM Dual Purpose (Starting/Cycling) Battery for Yuasa 55D23L Replacement $234.99
    The right battery is out there.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 49.5 mpg (US) ... 21.1 km/L ... 4.7 L/100 km ... 59.5 mpg (Imp)


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    Senior Member Cobrajet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eggman View Post
    I used to think the same thing. I will often check for the Mirage Group 35 size battery at the shelves of whatever store I'm at and have found them stocked most every time.

    Based on a recommendation here, I checked my Costco and was surprised not just that they had the correct battery in stock, but they had an ample supply of them on the shelf.

    For a battery that is the correct size for the Mirage and will fit with no modification, and has claimed numbers that will outperform even larger batteries, it is a very good battery at a good price. The cost savings would even help pay for a Costco membership.

    Here's where I found it:


    My Owner's Manual says the factory battery is a 55D23L (356CCA/99RC). BatteriesPlus.com shows the following replacements for the Group 35 battery:

    The right battery is out there.
    The Mirage actually takes a Group 85 battery.

    Group 85 (230mm x 173mm x 203mm) 9 1/16" x 6 13/16" x 8"

    A Group 35 battery is..

    Group 35 (230mm x 175mm x 225mm) 9 1/16" x 6 7/8" x 8 7/8"

    Note the extra 7/8" of height. That is why the hold-downs on Dirk's car would no longer fit when a Group 35 was installed. A Group 35 will work, but will be taller.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kevindd992002 View Post
    ...
    That's what I thought. I should've brought my voltmeter to test these thoroughly as the car was in a different house.

    I'm simply curious as to why the fully-charged battery didn't cut it.
    ...
    A plain voltmeter does not give you an accurate indication of the overall condition of the car battery. You must have a DMM w/ MIN/MAX function for that purpose.

    I have a battery tester that can display the SOC (state of charge) and SOH (state of health) values of the battery and used it to check my stock battery from time to time when my battery reached 3+ years old.

    https://www.amazon.com/BA5-100-1200-.../dp/B0017R5EQK

    I've also used a 7-stage automatic battery charger w/ recondition function..




    You may have 100% SOC but if your SOH value drops to lower than 70% .. not much can be done to improve the value .. it indicates your battery has deteriorated and needs a replacement.

    At present, in lieu of a DMM w/ MIN/MAX function, I have a BM2 monitor hooked up to the battery.




    You can monitor the battery condition thru an Android app.




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