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Thread: Battery Size and Replacement

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7milesout View Post
    I agree with your disagreement of that assertion...

    And as for regeneration ... I wonder if foama might have a bit different conceptual idea of what he is considering to be "regeneration." Because on Toyota hybrids, the regeneration is the actual motor that drives the car to be able to be turned by the momentum of the car and from that to actually generate electricity to be flowed back into the battery pack. No such energy is flowing back to the battery of our Mirage from the momentum of the car. I'm assuming foama knows that, which makes me think his concept of regeneration is something other than I am imagining.

    I guess what I'm saying is, he may not be wrong, but at least for me, I'll need a bit more 'splainin.

    The brake regeneration on our cars is no way as effective as on a hybrid! They do have regeneration none the less.

    On our cars it is just the alternator putting a full load (=full charge) when you lift the foot off the gas at elevated revs, and thereby "braking" a little bit. During this procedure the battery gets as much current as the alternator can put out, regardless of wether the battery actually needs a charge. By doing so and giving the battery more charge than it actually needs, the alternator has to charge a bit less during normal cruising or acellaration, because it has received more than enough charge, and therefore fuel is saved because the alternator is not taking power away from the running engine.
    The sort of batteries built to withstand this sort of not really necessary charging, a form of regeneration, are labeled "for energy efficient" such as the OEM Hitachi batteries.


    Last edited by foama; 11-12-2021 at 05:53 PM.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by foama View Post
    The brake regeneration on our cars is no way as effective as on a hybrid! They do have regeneration none the less.

    On our cars it is just the alternator putting a full load (=full charge) when you lift the foot off the gas at elevated revs, and thereby "braking" a little bit. During this procedure the battery gets as much current as the alternator can put out, regardless of wether the battery actually needs a charge. By doing so and giving the battery more charge than it actually needs, the alternator has to charge a bit less during normal cruising or acellaration, because it has received more than enough charge, and therefore fuel is saved because the alternator is not taking power away from the running engine.
    The sort of batteries built to withstand this sort of not really necessary charging, a form of regeneration, are labeled "for energy efficient" such as the OEM Hitachi batteries.
    This can be easily proven with a voltmeter measuring vehicle voltage during deceleration. Headlamp brightness would be another indicator.

    Has anyone noticed their headlamps getting brighter while decelerating?
    Last edited by Eggman; 11-12-2021 at 06:44 PM. Reason: Emphasis added
    2015 Mitsubishi Mirage ES 5-speed with pushbutton start, automatic climate controls, original Dunlop Enasaves and no center console.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 49.6 mpg (US) ... 21.1 km/L ... 4.7 L/100 km ... 59.5 mpg (Imp)


  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eggman View Post
    I disagree with this assertion. This factory-installed Hitachi battery is not a sealed lead-acid design. Not saying that is a requirement, but I wouldn’t expect it to be used with regenerative braking.

    My original Hitachi battery was replaced for acid leakage. I did some experimenting with engine-off coasting which involved more engine starts than with typical use. These frequent engine starts deplete a battery charge more than usual causing the alternator to apply a higher charge current which I suspect may have contributed to the acid leak problem. That battery was replaced at under two years of ownership.

    On top of that somewhere around here are details on the Regenerative braking feature (or maybe it’s Automatic Stop & Go - can’t remember…) which when properly equipped from the factory includes a larger battery and alternator (if I recall correctly.)
    I really don't have much of an opinion on this matter, but foama may have the Auto S & G feature (along with some mandate that requires it). If so, he may have a different model battery & alternator. Just speculation on my part.

    Mirages vary in North America because of mandates. Unlike Canadian Mirages, our Mirages must have TPMS and backup cameras. So it's possible foama's Mirage is set up differently?

    I don't think there is anything special about our Mirage factory batteries.

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    foama, do you have any idea what the normal battery voltage is and what it rises to during deceleration? Is the normal battery voltage lower for the auto stop and go models to allow the battery to regen faster during braking?

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by mohammad View Post
    foama, do you have any idea what the normal battery voltage is and what it rises to during deceleration? Is the normal battery voltage lower for the auto stop and go models to allow the battery to regen faster during braking?

    The battery voltage on our cars is just the same as on every 12V car. During regeneration while decelerating above maybe 2750rpm or so, the alternator puts out its maximum possible current to the battery and therefore simultaniously brakes the engine a bit. No way as effective regeneration as on a hybrid, but as effective as it can be with this sort of technology. I have not measured the voltage on deceleration.

    My car is a standard "stripped naked" manual, no AS&G, no EGR, no nothing. Only what is mandatory by law, like TPMS and other nonsense.

    The regenerative braking feature was not advertised by Mitsubishi as far as I know, its just a part of the car. The gain is not very much, but it is practically almost zero cost to implement. It definitely lowers consumption a little bit, so maybe it was implemented to give better figures during the standardized consumption tests? At fuel cost around the equivalent of US$10 per gallon, we appreciate everything that lowers consumption and CO2 output.

    Note the connections to the ECM. Normally an alternator would have a thick cable to the battery, and one thinner cable to the generator warning light. Maybe a capacitor for ridding RF interference. Our cars are more modern. They have received a bit more wiring and a little bit more programming in the ECM to implement this feature. Costs almost nothing but lowers consumption a bit. Consequently, the battery is the "for energy efficient" sort, usually with larger dimensions compared to other batteries of the same Ah and starting current.
    The following picture for understanding:

    Name:  gen.jpg
Views: 47
Size:  37.9 KB


    Last edited by foama; 11-13-2021 at 08:56 AM.

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