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Thread: First impressions after 1 week

  1. #11
    Moderator Eggman's Avatar
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    Hey Scratchpaddy, help me understand what you're saying here as it doesn't make sense to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scratchpaddy View Post
    ...when you lift off the gas to change gears and the throttle plate immediately slams closed, it causes a sudden increase in crankcase pressure, pushing more oil vapors through the PCV system to be burned off in the cylinders.
    I always thought that closing the throttle could cause a spike in manifold vacuum, controlled only by the amount which the throttle is controlled/restricted by either the ECU or an idle limiting screw. This temporary vacuum condition would help draw in crankcase blow-by pressure and in turn reduce it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scratchpaddy View Post
    The air/fuel mixture also leans out momentarily, causing a spike in NOx emissions.
    Same here. With the throttle closing, it not only restricts air but inherently causes a temporary rich condition, until the emissions controls kicks in. That might be the single biggest benefit to having a control-by-wire throttle, is the ECU can better manage the air-fuel ratio and in turn what gets sent to the catalytic converter.

    I got this from studying emissions controls from 1970s era systems growing up.


        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 49.6 mpg (US) ... 21.1 km/L ... 4.7 L/100 km ... 59.5 mpg (Imp)


  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by MacClyver View Post
    Yeah, to quote mt999999(the previous owner): "change is bad". Still gotta appreciate what it doesn't have: a touchscreen, cellular based tracking, the ability to be remotely hacked, and such high tech undesirables.


    Shifter lockout yep, shifter feels locked in place when clutch isn't pressed, and free moment it is. If you have a different model manual vehicle try to move the shifter when the car is stopped and the engine isn't running. You can freely move in and out of gears. Not so with this Mirage.

    Yes on the heater controls, if I want it defrosting full blast I don't want to worry about it stopping because it thinks it is warm enough. Before long a newer Mirage manual hvac crash victim is sure to turn up in a junkyard so I'll live with it for now.
    Yeah I'm not a big fan of touch screens either. They look nice when they're new and might work okay but the few that I've used were small dirty and hard to read if it's sunny out.

    I've owned and driven dozens of manuals. None of them would easily pop out of gear if on any kind of hill. If there is no strain on the driveline, like parked on a flat spot then it should slide out of gear pretty easily. There shouldn't be a mechanical lock on the shifter or transmission to prevent that. I've never seen a car you can't shift without using the clutch unless the syncros are toast or it's just a not a synchronized transmission.

    I appreciate vehicles that don't have babysitter/tracking either. I don't know how I'd like to get something that can be tracked. What if I want to rob a bank or bury someone in the bush? I'd probably use a mirage.

    I don't imagine it'll be a simple job converting from auto to manual temp controls. To do it "properly". I'd expect you'll need to swap the entire heater box. Maybe check the part numbers on a Mitsu parts site first before stocking up at a junkyard. I don't know if the wiring would be the same for manual to auto temp. I did see a few unused connectors close to the heater box in our 15's I've torn apart so maybe it'll be the same? These cars can be pretty finicky when it comes to wiring. But who know's you might be able to just pop off the blend door motors and there might be provisions to easily stick cables there instead? None of the cars I work on have auto temp so couldn't tell you for sure.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage SE wussie cvt edition. 1.2 automatic: 37.7 mpg (US) ... 16.0 km/L ... 6.2 L/100 km ... 45.3 mpg (Imp)


  3. #13
    Senior Member MacClyver's Avatar
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    Eggman: I'm sure the eco light is computer controlled. Seems certain that it doesn't go off of instant mpg however so vaccuum is the first thing that came to mind. If it is indeed engine load based I'll edit my review. I'll be sure to monitor MAP an LOD on my scanguage next drive I go on. As multiple people have now called me out about the shifter I must wonder is this simply what a gearbox that isn't yet broken in feels like?

    Scratchpaddy: I had suspicion that the throttle delay was to enforce more efficient take offs. Never would've thought it was that complicated though.

    Mark: Yes the speedometer is perfectly fine, other than maybe the fact they should've stopped at say 110 mph rather than 140.

    dspace9: Yeah the seats are so so, I wasn't going to call them a pro or a con. They do their job, nothing more or less.

    Top Fuel: Yes I am driving a Mirage. I'll even get some dB values to compare at say idle 35 and 70 mph once I get the collector plates for my black Metro. Speakers you're right, are simply on par with the $35 worth of amazon speakers that went into the Metro. Still better than the 2 worn out speakers I was using for a few years . So far I had my ScanGauge in the door handle as it fit there decently but it isn't a good spot to be seen, I'll be sure to look at your link.

    Fummins: I didn't mean going uphill or with any kind of load on the drivetrain. This must just be what a transmission that isn't yet broken in yet feels like. I'm sure converting the heater controls will be a good sized job but it's worth it to me, now I just need to wait for the parts car to arrive in a few years.


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  5. #14
    Senior Member Top_Fuel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fummins View Post
    I don't imagine it'll be a simple job converting from auto to manual temp controls.
    To do it "properly" I'd expect you'll need to swap the entire heater box.
    It doesn't look like you can just swap control heads. The HVAC assemblies have 2 different part numbers between manual and auto climate control...


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        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 52.2 mpg (US) ... 22.2 km/L ... 4.5 L/100 km ... 62.6 mpg (Imp)


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  7. #15
    Hubcap Enthusiast Scratchpaddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eggman View Post
    Hey Scratchpaddy, help me understand what you're saying here as it doesn't make sense to me.

    I always thought that closing the throttle could cause a spike in manifold vacuum, controlled only by the amount which the throttle is controlled/restricted by either the ECU or an idle limiting screw. This temporary vacuum condition would help draw in crankcase blow-by pressure and in turn reduce it.

    Same here. With the throttle closing, it not only restricts air but inherently causes a temporary rich condition, until the emissions controls kicks in. That might be the single biggest benefit to having a control-by-wire throttle, is the ECU can better manage the air-fuel ratio and in turn what gets sent to the catalytic converter.

    I got this from studying emissions controls from 1970s era systems growing up.
    It was something I read when I was doing research on how to make my Yaris more driveable. Now that I typed it out and slept on it, yeah... it's all backwards. Closed throttle plate = less air, more vacuum.

    I read it in two separate places, but they're not exactly research-paper grade (they're selling aftermarket throttle controllers):

    'Rev Hang' Explained And Why Petrolheads Hate It

    When the throttle is released and the clutch is dipped, an ECU with rev hang is programmed to leave the throttle slightly more open than usual.

    This strategy is used because it was found that suddenly closing the throttle produced a sudden spike in gas pressure within the crankcase which emphasised the rate of oil vaporisation, thus adding to emissions from the engine. Also, when the throttle is suddenly shut, the fuel mixture suddenly becomes lean which creates NOx (oxides of Nitrogen) which also contributes to emissions.
    Rev hang and ways of eliminating it

    Car makers are forced by legislation to build cars meeting ever tighter exhaust emission limits, typically defined in grams/km of test for HC (hydrocarbons), CO (carbon monoxide) and NOx (oxides of nitrogen). It is a known fact that NOx tend to rise with sudden leaning of fuel mixture as it happens when throttle is closed abruptly.

    Car manufactures tried since late '70s of the last century to prevent such a condition by installing vacuum operated dashpots on carburetted cars just for the purpose of slowing down the closing of carburettor butterfly valve. It was before cars with fuel injected engines became common. Now it is much easier for car designers to control many aspects of EFI (electronically fuel injected) engine operation, including prevention of sudden drop in engine speed by embedded software control.
    Maybe they mean when the throttle is opened abruptly? Because there's a delay programmed in there, too. I've noticed drive-by-wire throttles are very slow to respond from zero, and to return to zero, but have no noticeable delay when going from, say, 20% to 60%. They must be doing it for a reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MacClyver View Post
    Mark: Yes the speedometer is perfectly fine, other than maybe the fact they should've stopped at say 110 mph rather than 140.
    The old 1988-93 Ford Festiva cars only went to 85 mph. At least the base level models were like that with no tachometer. Then again, speed limits were much lower when those cars came out. The National Maximum Speed Law wasn't totally repealed by Congress until 1995.
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    Last edited by Mark; 05-24-2019 at 11:29 PM.

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  10. #17
    Senior Member dspace9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacClyver View Post
    converting the heater controls will be a good sized job but it's worth it to me.
    Careful with some DIY can end up Do Yourself In. I wouldn't tackle something like that the first time on a car that is that much money.

    Or maybe order a brand new Mirage like I did, and then get what you want and as you like it done, options, paint colour etc. exactly your way.

    Keep in mind you might run into unintended consequences and in get over your head. I can't afford to tamper with my daily commuter, sorry to be blunt.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 42.2 mpg (US) ... 17.9 km/L ... 5.6 L/100 km ... 50.7 mpg (Imp)


  11. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eggman View Post
    I was, and still am. I am pleasantly surprised by the features included in a cheap economy car.
    Eggman - I totally agree with you! Those of us that owned, drove, or still drive the old Metro & Festiva cars of the past would feel the Mirage is very well equipped.

    All the cars that I have ever bought or owned have been base models. Some of that is dictated by the fact that I always buy/drive manuals. Base model economy cars of the mid 1980's through the 1990's were very basic cars. I can't speak for how a base level Metro was equipped, but the Ford Festiva (designed by Mazda, built by KIA, & sold by Ford) were very basic. My base level 2017 Mirage ES has A/C, power windows, remote power locks, power steering, ABS brakes, traction/stability control, tachometer, intermittent wipers, AM/FM/CD stereo system, outside passenger mirror, & multiple air bags. I may be missing a few standard equipment items here, but the old Festiva didn't have a single one of those items. Not one! Yet, I really appreciated my old Festiva for what it was.

    I feel the same way about my Mirage. It's a wonderful little economy car. Despite whatever happens in the future, I hope a basic economy car remains in Mitsubishi's line of vehicles.

  12. #19
    Senior Member MacClyver's Avatar
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    Mark, I know right. Metros were the same way, well they had a hash for 90 but 85 was the last number. I know it's to make the cars look more sporty but it seems just fake. My dads Turbo PT Cruiser speedometer goes up to 140 too, and in that once in a lifetime high speed chase you might choose to take it on it might see some 140 mph. With 215 horsepower that is. Theres no point in providing gauging for speeds impossible to reach. Besides 105 can get you arrested/hefty ticket on any road in north america.

    dspace9, To me getting rid of it only to buy another makes no sense. Every month I keep this it depreciates, then pay brand new pricing... Which is no longer the heavily rebated price of a few years back. Then pay tax and title on that only to be at the steepest depreciation again .

    Now I'm not about to pay $860 for this new. So say pull the dash and heater core twice(junkyard car and my own) and add time to analyze and troubleshoot. Notice that disassembling the junkyard car will be an experience gaining trial to avoid f***ing up my own car. So say two or three days of work MAX, to save $10K... That is as perfect a no brainer as no brainer can be . I'm used to tinkering on my cars, I installed a timing belt in miserable winter conditions(parking lot, -10C and snowing) 4 months ago, it had to be done right then so it got done. I own my Mirage outright and want to make it how I want. I have no qualms about completing that project! Not to be snarky


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  14. #20
    Moderator Eggman's Avatar
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    The automatic climate control computer interfaces with ETACS. This swap will be more complicated and involved than you think.


        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 49.6 mpg (US) ... 21.1 km/L ... 4.7 L/100 km ... 59.5 mpg (Imp)


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