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Thread: Edmunds: Top 7 budget commuters for 2019

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by dspace9 View Post
    Good on gas and insurance and cheap to run and reliable, that's what I want in an economy car.

    My Mirage 5+ years ownership has been basically o.k. but you still want a faster car, bigger and better in the winter etc. Who doesn't think that when you are driving an econo box??

    To Mark's point I think the reason cars, ATVs, even motorcycles are getting bloated is people want comfort.
    For sure, but for the average person, a Mirage isn't an option. There are two types of people. Those who can adapt to driving a car that can't get your out of trouble if you need it to, and those who can.

    I picture my mother, who often makes a corner, checks her rear view, says oh **** and floors it. These people ARE MOST PEOPLE. They can't drive these things.

    And, for these people, you can spend $1000 more, get 30 more hp in a car only 250lb heavier, and only lose 2l/100, which for most people is well under $400 a year in fuel. Now, if you are Stateside, I dont know what the next cheapest is, but you must have an around $10,500 Micra equivalent.


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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2018 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 43.5 mpg (US) ... 18.5 km/L ... 5.4 L/100 km ... 52.2 mpg (Imp)


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    And of you arent hypermiling they are near the same mpg. The Mirage punishes bad driving, whereas the Micra does about the same economy anywhere north of 100.
    Last edited by nickels; 07-26-2019 at 05:30 PM.

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2018 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 43.5 mpg (US) ... 18.5 km/L ... 5.4 L/100 km ... 52.2 mpg (Imp)


  3. #23
    Senior Member dspace9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickels View Post
    And of you arent hypermiling they are near the same mpg. The Mirage put dishes bad driving, whereas the Micra does about the same economy anywhere north of 100.
    I will give my Mirage credit on a few things. I think the ride is smoother and more comfortable than you would first think looking at the Mirage. I'm thinking the Micra has some of the same problem as my Mirage, that is being tiny.

    You have to drive more defensively in small budget cars. Not the same uh oh moment like you were talking about but still keep that in mind. Watch for people pulling in front of you all the time and not seeing you on the road. My car is dark grey with gravel dust lol not kiwi green so ya not seen well.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 214 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 39.8 mpg (US) ... 16.9 km/L ... 5.9 L/100 km ... 47.8 mpg (Imp)


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    Administrator MetroMPG's Avatar
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    I'm going to play devil's advocate here:

    Quote Originally Posted by nickels View Post
    it is nearly dangerous on ALL of my local roads. Lots of stop signs turning onto roads where traffic does 120, lots of short on ramps where balls to the wall has you doing 90 merging into traffic doing 115-130.
    Really, why is this dangerous? I literally cannot think of the last time I heard of a car rear-ending another car on a highway that couldn't match the speed of traffic it just merged into. Yes, it will cause inattentive drivers to have to jump on the brakes, and of course out of courtesy we don't want to force other drivers to have do that.

    But is it actually dangerous, or is it just stressful to someone who wants more power?

    There are LOTS of vehicles driving in the same circumstances every day that can't accelerate even as fast as a Mirage. Mostly commercial vehicles, I'm thinking. (Not counting Smart cars, Metros, Fireflies and many regular cars from the 90's, not to mention many classic cars).

    But this is not a new problem. There is no carnage on the roads because of slow-accelerating cars.

    I can see it being stressful for sure. But is dangerous the right description?

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage base ES 1.2 manual: 54.0 mpg (US) ... 23.0 km/L ... 4.4 L/100 km ... 64.9 mpg (Imp)


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    Senior Member timw4mail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
    I'm going to play devil's advocate here:

    Really, why is this dangerous? I literally cannot think of the last time I heard of a car rear-ending another car on a highway that couldn't match the speed of traffic it just merged into. Yes, it will cause inattentive drivers to have to jump on the brakes, and of course out of courtesy we don't want to force other drivers to have do that.

    But is it actually dangerous, or is it just stressful to someone who wants more power?

    There are LOTS of vehicles driving in the same circumstances every day that can't accelerate even as fast as a Mirage. Mostly commercial vehicles, I'm thinking.(Not counting Smart cars, Metros, Fireflies and many regular cars from the 90's, not to mention many classic cars).

    But this is not a new problem. There is no carnage on the roads because of slow-accelerating cars.

    I can see it being stressful for sure. But is dangerous the right description?
    There's one interchange ramp I tend to avoid because it is so short: I-69E to US-23S/I-75S. It's probably safer than it feels, but the short ramp also leads to an interchange split within maybe 2 miles, meaning I need to match the right lane speed, then go left a lane within a short distance. It's even more stressful if you have to follow a car or truck going slower, making the whole think that much worse.

    Instead, I go maybe 5 miles further, and take I-69E to I-475S till it merges with I-75S.

    I'm not sure that interchange would be less stressful with a quicker car, though.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2018 Mirage SE 1.2 automatic: 33.6 mpg (US) ... 14.3 km/L ... 7.0 L/100 km ... 40.4 mpg (Imp)


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    Quote Originally Posted by dspace9 View Post
    I will give my Mirage credit on a few things. I think the ride is smoother and more comfortable than you would first think looking at the Mirage. I'm thinking the Micra has some of the same problem as my Mirage, that is being tiny.

    You have to drive more defensively in small budget cars. Not the same uh oh moment like you were talking about but still keep that in mind. Watch for people pulling in front of you all the time and not seeing you on the road. My car is dark grey with gravel dust lol not kiwi green so ya not seen well.
    There were several areas in BC where you could not merge. Capilano being a good example (we have a few of us on here).

    New Brunswick is different. Rolling hills, blind corners. Yes, other drivers will have to brake even if I drop the clutch in the Mirage. Yes, if they didn't slow or are drunk (common here) or on their phone (super common here) you'd get shunted. Yes, that is dangerous.

    The trucks have visibility in both directions, looking out and being seen. I'm low and not exactly easy to spot.
    Danger requires risk and opportunity, and that formula exists here, 100%.

    We've had 23 accidents on rural highways in the last 2 weeks, on roads where you often won't see a vehicle go by for 20 minutes.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2018 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 43.5 mpg (US) ... 18.5 km/L ... 5.4 L/100 km ... 52.2 mpg (Imp)


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    Dont even get me started on emergency braking for wildlife and trying to get back up to speed because you have a big rig tailgating you.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2018 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 43.5 mpg (US) ... 18.5 km/L ... 5.4 L/100 km ... 52.2 mpg (Imp)


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    Quote Originally Posted by nickels View Post
    We've had 23 accidents on rural highways in the last 2 weeks, on roads where you often won't see a vehicle go by for 20 minutes.
    I'd bet none of those accidents were economy cars getting punted off the road from behind by someone who didn't slow down in time.

    EDIT: Don't get me wrong: I'm not arguing the Mirage is the best tool for every driving environment. I just think the "dangerous" tag gets overused when it comes to how much power it has. Pet peeve from some of the negative reviews.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2014 Mirage base ES 1.2 manual: 54.0 mpg (US) ... 23.0 km/L ... 4.4 L/100 km ... 64.9 mpg (Imp)


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    Quote Originally Posted by nickels View Post
    And, for these people, you can spend $1000 more, get 30 more hp in a car only 250lb heavier, and only lose 2l/100, which for most people is well under $400 a year in fuel. Now, if you are Stateside, I dont know what the next cheapest is, but you must have an around $10,500 Micra equivalent.
    $10,500 MSRP Canadian ($7963 MSRP U.S.) cars don't exist here!
    $11,000 MSRP Canadian ($8342 MSRP U.S) Mirages don't exist here!

    We have 5 Mirage trim levels. Our base level ES MANUAL appears to be almost identical to your ES PLUS 5MT.

    $15,000 MSRP Canadian ES PLUS 5MT Mirages don't exist here!
    Highly discounted Mirages exist here. Otherwise, I wouldn't suggest buying one!

    A 2019 Mirage ES MANUAL (same car as the ES PLUS 5MT) has a MSRP of $13,795 ($18,182 MSRP Canadian). Keep in mind, your base level Mirage is about $7000 MSRP less ($18,182 - $10,999) than our base level Mirage. That's a chunk of change for an economy car.

    Comparing apples to apples as best we can -
    A base level Mirage in the U.S. has a $13,795 MSRP = $18,182 Canadian. That same basic trim level car has a $15,000 MSRP in Canada. Why the $3,000 difference for the same car?

    Our Mirages are not priced right for the American market. Apparently flashing huge discount in front of American consumers is their approach to selling us cars?

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    A base level 2019 Honda Fit has a MSRP of $16,190 ($21,339 Canadian). This car has a 1.5L non-turbo engine that cranks out 130 hp. That's 52 hp (40%) more than a Mirage. A base level Fit has a 6-speed manual. A/C & cruise are standard items. It's a nice car! If I could have bought one for a $1000 more than what I paid for my Mirage, I would have one in my driveway!

    We can't buy what we don't have. We don't have cheap base level cars in the U.S. any more. Finding a manual is even hard to do. In many cases, manual options don't even exist. American cars are overloaded with features, & they are overpriced for what features they have.

    I really like my 78 hp Mirage. It was cheap. It's been reliable, & it's very economical. I've owned a number of cars with less hp than the Mirage. You just shift the car, & it goes! It's a great second car/daily driver!
    Last edited by Mark; 07-26-2019 at 11:53 PM.

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    Senior Member Dirk Diggler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickels View Post
    Seems a lot of people here don't have many short onramps.

    Remember, I love my car, but it is nearly dangerous on ALL of my local roads. Lots of stop signs turning onto roads where traffic does 120, lots of short on ramps where balls to the wall has you doing 90 merging into traffic doing 115-130.

    The car is slow. To say "it can do 170" is fine, it can. But when you need to get moving the car doesn't.

    Just because lots of us has a quiet commute doesn't mean some people are comfortable merging onto a highway doing half the rate of traffic. Lots of sketchy moments.

    Hell, I have one stop sign at the end of my street, highway onto highway. In the Micra I punt it, and if somebody clears the hill doing 125 just as I start the turn, I'm doing 125 before they catch up.

    In the Mirage, I'm doing 85, and since it's the 0-30 where it truly struggles, more of that time is spent not moving. I've had to start turning into oncoming and then merging into my lane when I'm up to speed.

    If that stretch had any more traffic on it, it would be totally impossible.
    I just finished an Uber shift, avg 70 mph, merging on short lanes onto very fast city freeways. No problems at all, and I drive the CVT. The auxilary gears kicked down nicely IMO. I havent seen Canadian merge lanes though, so I dunno.



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