Electric Car Rant

[MetroMPG]

Since my last post in this thread, there's 2 more EVs in my folks' neighbourhood: another Prius PHEV and a Tesla Model 3.

[Mark]

. We are in for a huge EV explosion over the next few years, and it IS going to become mainstream enough that these issues will be resolved (I'd love to see charging stations at all public waysides...for example).

https://electrek.co/2019/01/18/tesla...harger-prices/

It may be become more popular in some parts of the country.

15,000 mi/yr / average 44 mpg = 341 gallons of fuel needed

341 gallons x $2.50 = $852.50/year for gas

3 oil changes done myself (approximately $75/year)

Don't electric cars have brakes & tires costs?

I can buy a slightly used Mirage for under $10,000 quite easily. Then again electric cars also depreciate. Quote -

"As previous studies have found, they noted that on average, electric vehicles depreciate faster than gasoline cars. According to the new study, the average depreciation rate for electric vehicles is 56.6% versus 38.2% for the average gasoline car." Jun 17, 2019

Looks like Telsa vehicles do better, however.

As the demand goes up, I suspect electric charging prices to go up. Less demand for fuel may help fuel price remain lower. All speculation!

I am not saying you are right or wrong. I'm sure electric vehicles will become more popular in some parts of the country.

[Top_Fuel]

The latest Bolt is the only EV I would consider. It has a good range now (250+ miles) and a potentially realistic price. They have an $8,500 incentive and are selling for roughly $10K below MSRP...which puts them into the mid-upper 20s. If that number gets a lot closer to $20K, they might get my attention.

Forget the $40K PHEV. How about a $9500 iMiev?!?

[Go4th]

https://electrek.co/2019/01/18/tesla...harger-prices/

It may be become more popular in some parts of the country.

15,000 mi/yr / average 44 mpg = 341 gallons of fuel needed

341 gallons x $2.50 = $852.50/year for gas

3 oil changes done myself (approximately $75/year)

Don't electric cars have brakes & tires costs?

I can buy a slightly used Mirage for under $10,000 quite easily. Then again electric cars also depreciate. Quote -

"As previous studies have found, they noted that on average, electric vehicles depreciate faster than gasoline cars. According to the new study, the average depreciation rate for electric vehicles is 56.6% versus 38.2% for the average gasoline car." Jun 17, 2019

Looks like Telsa vehicles do better, however.

As the demand goes up, I suspect electric charging prices to go up. Less demand for fuel may help fuel price remain lower. All speculation!

I am not saying you are right or wrong. I'm sure electric vehicles will become more popular in some parts of the country.

EV's use regenerative braking a lot to recoup that energy, so literally people can drive with way less use of the friction brakes. Which translates to basically not needing new brakes for years. I also don't do my own oil changes, but they are much, much, much cheaper than the ones for my FIAT. In the amount of driving I do, that stuff adds up quicker than for most people. I figured out I've put roughly 150 miles a day on my car (if driven daily) since I got it last August.

For someone like me who drives a lot (I've put 25,000 miles on my G4 since last August), and lives in a super EV friendly area (PNW)-it makes a ton of sense to make the switch. But I know for some people, it just doesn't make sense yet and I get that. And the cost factor is a real and valid issue. My G4 was $12k (sticker was just shy of $18k), and on a bad bad MPG day I'm getting 35. I average 40-45, and have gotten some low 50's. It's hard to swallow a price of $30-$40k for an EV right now. The Bolt is the only one in a 'reasonable' price range with their rebates and discounts. Plus my G4 isn't a complex car, which is hard to find these days. I have to admit I'm also being swayed by things like adaptive cruise control and lane keep assist.

I've toyed with looking into converting my G4 to electric, but then I remember the whole reason I started the search was that the seat/driving position in my G4 is doing horrible things to my body. In owning the 'most fuel efficient non hybrid car in North America' (or whatever title it is), I would be taking an MPG hit on any non-hybrid car. And our cars honestly rival a lot of way more expensive hybrids, which led me to EV's.

I would love to see Mitsubishi do a BEV Mirage/G4 or even a PHEV (and some new seats to boot.), but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

[Mirageman38]

It's hard to swallow a price of $30-$40k for an EV right now.

With this type of price the math doesn't work out. Mirage is significantly cheaper.

[Fummins]

I wouldn't mind an ev and would consider an ioniq if I were looking. But my Mirage is paid for and doesn't cost much to drive. There would be no financial benefit or savings for me to buy any new car over keeping Mirage for another 2-3 years. Adding up my initial cost for the car, oil changes a few times a year, a brake job every 3-4 years,tires every 3 years?, even an engine and transmission ($600 each) replacement(used), would likely still be under $10,000 after 5 years.

There's a good change my next vehicle will be a plug in hybrid but I don't expect to buy anything for another 2-3 years. Paying off mortgage is priority right meow.

[Nobu]

Yeah, was considering buying an old truck and converting it to electric,but the mirage won out. The batteries would have cost more than the mirage on their own, or they would have either been too heavy or lower capacity than I need.

I'm still thinking about it, but probably not going to happen before this car is paid off.

[Top_Fuel]

Here are some numbers I came up with comparing an EV's fuel cost to a Mirage. You guys can double-check me on the numbers. This model is going to vary based on what you are paying for electricity and gasoline. I'm trying to keep it simple, so I'm leaving out maintenance costs, depreciation, etc.


How much does it cost to fuel an EV? (using formula from here)

Electricity Cost.........$0.046 KwH (this is what I pay in Ohio)
KwH used per 100 miles...30 (depends on the EV)

30 KwH (per 100 miles) x $0.046/KwH = $1.38 per 100 miles



How much does it cost to fuel a Mirage?

Gasoline................$2.50/gallon
Gallons per 100 miles...2.5 (40mpg)

$2.50 x 2.5 gallons (per 100 miles) = $6.25 per 100 miles



How much does it cost to fuel each car for 100,000 miles?

EV...............$1380
Mirage.........$6250
EV Savings...$4870 (in 100000 miles)



Conclusions

• Driving an EV 200000 miles will save roughly $10,000 dollars in fuel costs vs a 40mpg Mirage.
• The cheapest EV is about $15,000 more than a Mirage.
• It's hard to imagine a scenario where an EV beats a Mirage from a purely financial angle.

[Mirageman38]

How in the world do you get electric that cheap? That is less than half the Ohio average. AAA average gas price is $1.92 a gallon (I have a feeling it's pretty easy to beat the average by $0.20 a gallon). Average US electric cost is 13.31 cents a kwh.

Let's look at the average easily achievable rates.
Electricity Cost.........$0.1331 KwH
KwH used per 100 miles...30 (depends on the EV)

30 KwH (per 100 miles) x $0.1331/KwH = $3.99 per 100 miles

How much does it cost to fuel a Mirage?

Gasoline................$1.92/gallon
Gallons per 100 miles...2.5 (40mpg)

$1.92 x 2.5 gallons (per 100 miles) = $4.80 per 100 miles



How much does it cost to fuel each car for 100,000 miles?

EV...............$3990
Mirage.........$4880
EV Savings...$890 (in 100000 miles) on average in USA.

Also most states are not average on both. If you live in a state with significantly cheaper gas or higher electric it could easily lose money. Most states with high gas prices have even higher electric prices. It would be a money losing proposition in most north eastern states.

Here is for me in NJ
Electricity Cost.........$0.1528 KwH
KwH used per 100 miles...30 (depends on the EV)
30 KwH (per 100 miles) x $0.1528/KwH = $4.58 per 100 miles

Gasoline................$1.67/gallon
Gallons per 100 miles...2.5 (40mpg)
$1.67 x 2.5 gallons (per 100 miles) = $4.175/100 per 100 miles
Then I take an extra 5% off with a cashback card bringing it down to 3.97

How much does it cost me to fuel each car for 100,000 miles in NJ?

EV...............$4580
Mirage.........$3970
Mirage Savings...$610 (in 100000 miles)

The closest car to breaking even on price is the Hyundai Ioniq with government rebates and LOTS of driving.
If you start talking about 15k extra you are missing out on investment income from that money. I feel like this is an important factor people are missing.
Also at some point EV batteries need to be replaced and this is a big cost!
If the price of gas goes back up it might get more hopeful for the EV.

[inuvik]

One should realistically not look at the propulsion operating cost per mile as the true cost factor. When you factor in vehicle price (Mirage $15,000.00 if you pay too much for one and $30,000.00 if you're lucky for a EV) for a total cost per mile you could never drive enough miles to make up the USD $15,000.00 difference in vehicle price. That's the way I see it at least.