Ethanol-free fillup

[Eggman]

I see that now. Thank you.

According to Top_Fuel's records, using ethanol-free fuel definitely makes a difference in fuel consumption.

I think it's debatable how it impacts emissions - I understand that adding ethanol can reduce emissions at the tailpipe but of course it takes a lot of energy to produce, which outweighs the benefits? I'm not clear on the process.

I don't want to start any tiresome political bickering. Aside from that I still think it's interesting and worth learning about from an open perspective without political bias.

Are you interested in using ethanol-free fuel, precisionxt?

[precisionxt]

I’d like to at least try it, but to use it regularly, I’d need to find a lower priced supplier nearby. There’s a Kubota about 20 miles away so I could start the search there.

[Eggman]

I don't think it'll hurt anything except your wallet (that's a long round-trip.)

The Mirage is designed to use fuels blended with ethanol so I wouldn't worry about it causing any damage. The owner's manual has more detail about the use of ethanol blends.

In addition, I understand that the ECU adjusts with consistent use rather than occasional use.

[Top_Fuel]

Like Eggman mentioned...I have been running 100% gasoline in my car for the last 10 months. I think I gained an easy 2-2.5 mpg by using it. 100% gasoline (E00) is harder to find and it's more expensive.

I just filled up a few days ago...and here's what the pump prices looked like...



You can see that 100% gasoline is $0.70 per gallon more than 87 octane E10 in my area.

Here's what it would cost to fill up with E00 vs E10 (87 octane)...

8 gallons x $3.24 = $25.92
8 gallons x $2.54 = $20.32

So it cost me an extra $5.60 to fill up with E00.

With E10 I get 50.0 mpg (400 miles per tank)
With E00 I get 52.5 mpg (420 miles per tank)

So I paid an additional $5.60 to get an extra 20 extra miles out of a tank of gas.

Let's say that 20 miles is 1/2 gallon of gas in a Mirage...or about $1.25.
That means I paid $5.60 to save $1.25.

So E00 is not an economical fuel because of its price point. But I will probably continue running it because I want to support this company for selling it and I don't want it to go away. I do run it in my lawn mower for the reasons that Mark pointed out.

[Mark]

Like Eggman mentioned...I have been running 100% gasoline in my car for the last 10 months. I think I gained an easy 2-2.5 mpg by using it. 100% gasoline (E00) is harder to find and it's more expansive.

I just filled up a few days ago...and here's what the pump prices looked like...



You can see that 100% gasoline is $0.70 per gallon more than 87 octane E10 in my area.

Here's what it would cost to fill up with E00 vs E10 (87 octane)...

8 gallons x $3.24 = $25.92
8 gallons x $2.54 = $20.32

So it cost me an extra $5.60 to fill up with E00.

With E10 I get 50.0 mpg (400 miles per tank)
With E00 I get 52.5 mpg (420 miles per tank)

So I paid an additional $5.60 to get an extra 20 extra miles out of a tank of gas.

Let's say that 20 miles is 1/2 gallon of gas in a Mirage...or about $1.25.
That means I paid $5.60 to save $1.25.

So E00 is not an economical fuel because of its price point. But I will probably continue running it because I want to support this company for selling it and I don't want it to go away. I do run it in my lawn mower for the reasons that Mark pointed out.

Using Top Fuel's numbers -

E10 = 400 miles/$20.32 = $0.0508 per mile.

E00 = 420 miles/$25.92 = $0.0617 per mile

Personally, I don't think non-ethanol gas is that more expensive to produce. I think the hike in price is to prevent more consumers from using it. At 70+ cents per gallon, most consumers aren't willing to pay that much extra. The gain in performance/mpg isn't worth it. Plus, you can get a couple grades of higher octane gas for less, too. Unless your vehicle requires a high octane gas, it's sort of a waste of money to use it.

I can honestly say that I have never had any fuel related issues with 87 octane/E10 fuel in any of my vehicles, and this fuel has been around for a long time. Even though E00 gas is quite common in my area, it would have to be closer to 20-25 cents more per gallon before I would even consider using it in my vehicles. Even then the added mpg would have to justify the extra cost of using of it.

[Mitz]

I personally believe using the lowest tier gasoline would be fine if not for the ethanol content.

cookiemonster provided the link at post #8

"EPA Admits Ethanol Damages Engines"
https://powersportsbusiness.com/news...mages-engines/

Additional reading -
Can ethanol damage your engine?

"Mike Allen of Popular Mechanics says that under ideal conditions, a gasoline-ethanol blend is perfectly acceptable. But consumers cannot control those conditions, and they have no way of knowing if the fuel they're buying has been contaminated. All gasoline is susceptible to changes due to weather and moisture content, but ethanol exacerbates this problem. A higher concentration of alcohol in a gas tank (any gas tank -- at the production facilities, the tankers traveling on the highway, the storage tanks at a gas station, your car's reservoir and even the red plastic can sitting on the floor in your garage) means that the alcohol can grab and hold more water than straight gasoline. If the water concentration gets high enough, the alcohol and water will drop out of suspension, turning the fuel into a globby mess that your car's engine can't use. And it can happen at any stage of the transport, storage and usage process -- even getting worse as it goes along. In short, ethanol increases the chances that your car will be damaged trying to process and burn contaminated gasoline."

Source:
https://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-...age-engine.htm

[nickels]

I switch between E0 87 and E10 87 every few tanks. It costs me roughly $0.05 more per liter to go E0, but it's a few km out of the way.

I don't notice much of a difference, but I do some tanks at 80kmh average and some other tanks at 135km/h average.

But for me, it's almost the same price, and nearby. So all my small engines (chainsaw, snowblower, mowers etc) all run E0.

[A-Aron]

Top fuel, thanks so much for the post. I had been waiting to see how your car was doing.
I get non ethanol just down the street for my small equipment and motorcycles.
I have often wondered about using it in my mirage. Sounds like it would be a wash or slight negative in cost for me vs the mid grade I normally run. My only concern about running non ethanol is the occasional times I would have to fill up with ethanol while on trips and stuff. Sure it would be fine but that's just how my brain works. My OCD likes consistency ��

[fc321]

The reason that the real gasoline is so much more is because of the Government Tax credits given in USA to gas stations that use Ethanol-contaminated gas. So what that means is that in order to make the Corn Farmers of the USA happy that we all have to "wear-out" our engines prematurely. But if you meditate on it you can see that this "government sanctioned" obsolescence (And what I mean is that the government is approving this process while knowing full well that it will cause the engine to die an earlier death) you can see that this makes automakers happy as well since the vehicles are being crippled while still the deaths will happen outside of the warranty period.

But if you believe it to be a partisan issue then realize that under both Obama as well as Trump administration that the situation has not changed. Because the crippling is good for Big Business and good for the Corn Farmers while being bad for Average Joe.

But you can see already the shift that has happened to us becoming a "throw-away society" and buying a new smartphone every year. ANd who sews/mends a torn pair of pants anymore? They just throw it in the trash and buy a new pair. And with the cars "they dont make 'em like they used to" and so even with trusted brands like Toyota you are unlikely to see 500k miles out of a 2019 Toyota. Those days are over. But I just want to point out this is not a partisan issue because both of the mainstream political parties are going to keep the Ethanol subsidies around.