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Thread: 2020 Oil Change thread

  1. #31
    Moderator Eggman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    It's interesting that the Champ PH2867XL sells for $14.35 on Amazon, & the Mobil 1 M1-110A is $9.75 on Amazon (same price as Walmart). Yet, Rock Auto sells the Champ PH2867XL ($3.27) for less $$$ than the basic Fram PH7317 ($4.73).
    What can you say about pricing, and what can you do about it?

    Once I found out Mobil doesn't make their own filters I was interested in learning more about their source, but not just pricing alone but performance. Last year, it was Champion Labs. Now it's MANN+HUMMEL.

    Where filter manufacturers once published their performance specifications, now those figures are hard to find. I noticed WIX removed filtration capacity from their website and Champion Laboratories makes claims using weasel words like "Up to 98% efficiency." I don't want to know what a filter line is capable "up to" but what it actually does.

    I found Mobil filters were expensive but made impressive claims on their performance. I didn't want to pay for the name (as you have suggested) or deal with the rebate circus. Here's hoping the Champ XL line is something of an equivalent to the Mobil filters of old.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    Wonder why the Champ oil filter reflects a low price on Rock Auto, but not Amazon?
    My guess is Greed. Thank goodness for the Sherman Antitrust Act and other competition laws.

    It's good to compare prices of one vendor against another. Without doing an extensive search or opening accounts with too many sellers, I went with Rock Auto for what I see as honest pricing that still deserves to get paid for reasonable shipping and handling costs.

    Remember that not everything sold on Amazon is sold *by* Amazon but through Amazon by some other source.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    Do Champ oil filters make any mileage claims for their products?
    Not that I can find. But I thought mileage claims were sketchy at best since the are so many variables. Driving conditions can vary based on location, weather, temperature, airborne particulates, driving habits, etcetera. That's why I'm more interested in filtration capacity and efficiency numbers.


    Last edited by Eggman; 05-06-2020 at 12:53 PM.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 49.6 mpg (US) ... 21.1 km/L ... 4.7 L/100 km ... 59.5 mpg (Imp)


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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eggman View Post
    What can you say about pricing, and what can you do about it?

    Once I found out Mobil doesn't make their own filters I was interested in learning more about their source, but not just pricing alone but performance. Last year, it was Champion Labs. Now it's MANN+HUMMEL.

    Where filter manufacturers once published their performance specifications, now those figures are hard to find. I noticed WIX removed filtration capacity from their website and Champion Laboratories makes claims using weasel words like "Up to 98% efficiency." I don't want to know what a filter line is capable "up to" but what it actually does.

    I found Mobil filters were expensive but made impressive claims on their performance. I didn't want to pay for the name (as you have suggested) or deal with the rebate circus. Here's hoping the Champ XL line is something of an equivalent to the Mobil filters of old.
    The stark reality is most companies don't make their own filters. When I hear K&N, I think of filters. Yet, K&N doesn't even make their own oil filters. Unless something has changed, they are made by Champion Lab., too. STP & many others are no different.

    It reminds of buying Kenmore products from Sears. You buy a wash machine & then wonder if it was made my Whirlpool, Maytag, GE, Speed Queen, or some other company. One year a model may be made by one company, and then the following year it is made by someone else. Mobil 1, SuperTech, & other filters may be like that?

    Most products have become a reversal of the example I just shared, too. It's like one company is now making all the washing machines for Kenmore, Whirlpool, Maytag, GE, Speed Queen, etc.

    In a way, car batteries have become that, too! A couple companies are manufacturing them & slapping different labels on them.

    I would even add Kirkland, AmazonBasics, & SuperTech oils in this discussion. It's very possible that there is zero difference between them other than the container Warren Distribution is filling at the time of production. Having said that, I feel they are as good or better than some of the other major brand names.

    It's almost impossible to compare apples to apples these days.

    On a positive note - Rock Auto is listing your oil filter as one of the heavy duty ones, & it's less than half the price of the rest of them in that category. An equivalent Fram "Tough Guard" or "Ultra Synthetic" is more than twice the cost on the same site. Secondly - It does claim to be made in U.S.A. (which may or may not mean something). It could be similar to the Mobil 1 oil filters, but you would probably have to cut two apart & really compare them to determine that.

    Good oil, good filter, & changed at decent intervals should keep a Mirage happy! I agree good maintenance will most likely trump excessive product claims in the long run.

    I already knew Champ doesn't make any mileage claims on their filters. I was just jerking your chain a bit!

  4. #33
    Moderator inuvik's Avatar
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    I use either Baldwin or Hastings filters in all my stuff. They make their own filters and put out a quality product and have been in business for a long long time. I find they are a few more $$ but I know where it's made and it's not junk.

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        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 automatic: 40.4 mpg (US) ... 17.2 km/L ... 5.8 L/100 km ... 48.5 mpg (Imp)


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    Quote Originally Posted by inuvik View Post
    I use either Baldwin or Hastings filters in all my stuff. They make their own filters and put out a quality product and have been in business for a long long time. I find they are a few more $$ but I know where it's made and it's not junk.
    Like I said, it's really hard to compare things these days. A Hastings LF240 oil filter is listed as standard grade oil filter replacement on Rock Auto. It's cheaper than a basic Fram PH7317 oil filter on their site.

    I do respect companies that offer one product.

    How does a cheaper Hastings stack up against a Fram Extra Guard, Tough Guard, or Ultra Synthetic, which Rock Auto list as more expensive oil filters?

    I have no doubt it's a good filter for the money.

    Most everybody is owned by somebody else these days -

    In 1936 J.A. Baldwin was one of the first to recognize the importance of improving mobile filtration. He designed a better lube filter and began production in Wisconsin. The company moved to the nationĀ’s heartland in 1953 to take advantage of the central location, eventually building on 42 acres of the former Kearney, Nebraska World War II Air Base. From 1963 to 1981, the Baldwin Filters plant expanded many times to accommodate the company’s rapid growth.

    In early 1981, Baldwin Filters was purchased by J.L. Clark Manufacturing Company. The group later became known as Clarcor. Baldwin Filters continued its steady growth. In Nebraska, manufacturing capacity was expanded and a multi-million dollar technical center was added for research and testing. New facilities were also opened in Europe, Mexico, Australia, China, South Africa and Morocco.

    In 1995, Baldwin Filters purchased Hastings Premium Filters, which included the addition of a third U.S. manufacturing site and facilitated the company’s expansion into the lucrative automotive filtration market. By 2016, the company was known worldwide as not only a vertically integrated manufacturer with unsurpassed product quality, but also a world-class distribution company encompassing nearly 1 million square feet in the Kearney, NE plant alone.

    A Parker Hannifin Company

    On February 28, 2017, Clarcor became part of the Parker Hannifin Corporation Filtration Group, which includes other strong filtration brands such as Parker Racor. For 100 years Parker has engineered the success of its customers in a wide range of diversified industrial and aerospace markets. This highly complementary combination establishes Parker among the top filtration companies in the world and the supplier of the most comprehensive offering of filtration solutions and services.

    Parker Hannifin is a Fortune 250 global leader in motion and control technologies.

    https://www.baldwinfilters.com/porta...cat=About%20Us
    Last edited by Mark; 05-06-2020 at 08:07 PM.

  7. #35
    Moderator Eggman's Avatar
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    Parker Hannifin is headquartered in the Cleveland area.

        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 49.6 mpg (US) ... 21.1 km/L ... 4.7 L/100 km ... 59.5 mpg (Imp)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Eggman View Post
    Parker Hannifin is headquartered in the Cleveland area.
    & Baldwin first started in Wisconsin!

    The world is mostly a global market now. Not saying that's good or bad. It's just the way things are now.

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    Eggman,
    . . . . I am not doing anything different. The orders are unconstitutional and illegal and I will not comply. WB changed my oil and filter and rotated my tires on Wednesday. I had them use Castroil Syntec 5-50. I have been using Syntec ever since it came out 40 years ago. I am happy with the way it performs and the wear factors of the engines that I have used it in. It isn't cheap but the peace of mind is well worth the cost. I went on a very long drive on Friday and I have put 2.5K miles on since that service. I am going to Miami in the 3rd week of June and I will need another service when I get back. FL, GA, AL, TX are all open. I hope the SC here ruled in our favor. If they followed the Constitutions of the US and WI then they had to. So WI should be opening back up real soon.
    GOD Bless and Thanks,
    rich!
    GOD Bless and Thanks,
    rich!

  10. #38
    Senior Member Alex1a1f's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mechanic View Post
    Eggman,
    . . . . I am not doing anything different. The orders are unconstitutional and illegal and I will not comply. WB changed my oil and filter and rotated my tires on Wednesday. I had them use Castroil Syntec 5-50. I have been using Syntec ever since it came out 40 years ago. I am happy with the way it performs and the wear factors of the engines that I have used it in. It isn't cheap but the peace of mind is well worth the cost. I went on a very long drive on Friday and I have put 2.5K miles on since that service. I am going to Miami in the 3rd week of June and I will need another service when I get back. FL, GA, AL, TX are all open. I hope the SC here ruled in our favor. If they followed the Constitutions of the US and WI then they had to. So WI should be opening back up real soon.
    GOD Bless and Thanks,
    rich!
    GOD Bless and Thanks,
    rich!
    This isn't a political forum. Keep talk to cars. Thanks.
    (blank signature)

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  12. #39
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    Alex,
    . . . . I was just answering Eggman's questions. No more and no less. That said. Sorry!
    GOD Bless and Thanks,
    rich!

  13. #40
    Moderator Eggman's Avatar
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    I did the oil change last weekend. The Champ Labs PH2867XL oil filter is small like the original OEM filter when compared to the Mobil M1-110A I took out, but their construction looked the same from what I could tell looking inside both (no, I didn't cut either open.) The Kirkland Signature synthetic 0W-20, like so many other new oils, is hard to detect on the dipstick it's so clean & clear.


        __________________________________________

        click to view fuel log View my fuel log 2015 Mirage ES 1.2 manual: 49.6 mpg (US) ... 21.1 km/L ... 4.7 L/100 km ... 59.5 mpg (Imp)


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