Mirage Hatch or Mirage G4?

[AtomicPunk]

That would be a good deal for someone, but it's not a manual. Almost 70,000 miles is not bad either, but I wouldn't consider that low mileage. For the money, it's a good deal. I am not knocking your example by any means.

I get your point that affordable 2017-18 Mirages can be found. In all honesty, I only look at manual vehicles for sale. I don't remember ever seeing a low mileage 2017-18 manual for $6,000, unless it has a salvage title attached to it. That is why I asked if you are seeing those consistently. I didn't specify low mileage either. Thus, your point is very valid.

As far as deprecation goes, I am going to quote Cobrajet a few posts back - "Yeah, your new $15,000 car will be worth $8,000 in a couple years with 30k on it."

I personally wouldn't pay a lot of money for a Mirage, & this is coming from someone who really likes his Mirage. I became interested in Mirage when they were selling for $9,000 brand new (under $10,000 OTD). My car's window sticker was $14,220, but I paid less 66% of that price new. If my Mirage is still worth $7,000-8,000 2-3 years later, it really hasn't depreciated all that much. Most new vehicles depreciate more than that at the time of purchase. If I tried to trade in my Mirage for something else, however, I would lose out big time.

I've seen the 2020 Mirage ES manual as low as $9,999 this past summer, & that would be at a dealership that would push it out their door for about $11,000. Given cruise, back up cameras, & other features have become standard or mandatory since 2017, an $11,000 OTD price is pretty good.

If you pay $15,000 plus tax &/or other tacked on fees, depreciation will surely be more of a factor. Someone shared paying near $20,000 OTD for a Mirage last winter. That car would take a much bigger depreciation hit than one bought at $11,000-13,000 OTD.

I'll be honest here. $15,000+ Mirages would have never interested me. At that price, I would have bought a slightly used Mirage for about 2/3 that price or something entirely different. For me, the Mirage needs to be affordable to purchase, reliable, and economical to drive. You take away any of those traits, & it would have lost its charm for me.

I agree with everything you just said. I don't think I could bring myself to buying one new, knowing what I do now about them. But Ive only bought new once in my life (1985 Ford Ranger). I like to pick them up at 2-4 years old with good maintenance records, like I did my G4. I do think the manual is more fun to drive, but on my commute I sure wish it had a 6th gear so I could cruise at 2k rpm like the CVT folks.

Also, like most other used cars, there were a whole lot more available pre-pandemic.

[Mark]

MetroMPG - I am a former design engineer for Toyota. I designed a rear seat back for the Toyota Solara that not only folded, but came out with ZERO BOLTS! I have a patent on that. Once folded down, the inboard latches had a feature like a hammer on a gun. Pull those hammers back and it released the latches. The outboard locations were just a bushed pin in a hole.

When I mention depreciation, it is all about totals, not percentage. For instance, I'm looking at a Mirage I can buy new right now for 10,050 (plus taxes, and I'm sure the dealer will add their rip-off fees which I would tell them to pound sand). Let's just say it is $10k for round numbers. In 5 years, maybe I can lose $10k worth of depreciation and it is worth zero.

Or I could buy a $90k BMW 7 Series, and in 5 years it is worth $24k. Seriously, BMWs are crap for resale these days. I'd rather drive a worthless $10k car that I only lost $10k on, than a $24k BMW that I lost $65k on.

I didn't mention. I only have 6 cars (not 7), and they've been paid for, for YEARS. The most prized is a 2000 Dodge Ram 2500HD Cummins 4X4 6-speed manual, that was paid off in 2002. I'll never sell that beauty.

A list of my fleet. Mostly worthless, but they all work very well.

1972 Plymouth Scamp - This car was GIVEN to me, by my first engineering mentor.
2000 Dodge Ram 2500HD
2003 Toyota Camry LE - Bought cheap from my parents, they bought it from the Toyota Tech Center where I worked at the time. Use it as a "trainer" for my sons to learn to navigate traffic.
2005 Infiniti G35 - 6 speed I bought for my college son (really good deals on those cars these days).
2009 Toyota Matrix - This crapper is for my wife after she crashed our 2004 Toyota Corolla last year. Paid $4k for it last year with 79k miles.
2010 Lexus LS 460L - Had 13,800 miles when I bought it in 2014. This is the smoothest coolest ride ever. But it would go out the door in a hurry if it were between this and my Dodge Ram.

2011 Suzuki Burgman 650 Executive - (got for cheap, had some problems)
2016 Honda Rebel 250 - Bought for cheap with 44 miles (For sale)

1997 E-Z-Go TXT (for sale)
2007 Honda CR 85R
2007 Yamaha Grizzly 400
2021 Yamaha PVT Quietech

I'm not rich. I'm not wealthy. I don't earn a ton of money. I do OK. The reason I share this with you is because if you young whipper snappers will stick to doing the hard things that make financial sense but require discipline to stick to, you too will be in a similar position as I am now (and I hope you do). I've saved A LOT of money (401k, personal investing, etc), and I'm in a house that is financed @ 2.875% for 15 years, and that is almost paid off too. So now, when I consider a $10k vehicle … it's still hard for me to fathom the following because I started with nothing just a cheap car my dad gave me long ago, but now a $10k car is just a toy I can pay cash for. I could afford a $100k car. But that's just stupid. I kicked around buying an $85k Lambo Countach some years ago. Yeah, it would be cool, but stupid. I just bought a $9,500 friggin golf cart. But … in a couple years I can sell it for about $8k if I needed to. And I live in a golf cart community. I limped along the current 1997 E-Z-Go for 9 years, and finally got tired of spending money on repairing it. But yeah, golf carts are stupid. I'd rather spent $9,500 on a Mirage. But I can do stupid crap like that now. I tell you young guys this in hopes of encouragement, to do the hard things now. It will pay off. Probably most of you are doing the smart things seeing that you are owners of Mirages and pay attention to forums (I've saved thousands by learning and doing myself in forums). I think buying a Mirage and keeping it for 10+ years would be really smart.

Even for me, buying a Mirage now would be money in the pocket. I'm sure I would keep it for 10 years. I've had my truck 20 years, and I'm still in love with it.

Looking back at the other thread you started, I wouldn't use a Mirage for towing. It's just not designed for that. I could see having a tow hitch for a bike rack on a Mirage, but I would not tow a 5' x 8' trailer with it.

Given your line up of current cars, I would consider using the Camry or even the Matrix to tow a small utility trailer. My guess is the Matrix would handle the load better & may even get better gas mileage than a Mirage while towing. I have a good friend who uses a Pontiac Vibe for towing a small teardrop camper trailer, & his Vibe (Matrix clone) does quite well. The Matrix is just a bit more substantial than a Mirage. I've used a VW Golf to haul small trailers in the past, & they do ok, too.

I am off to get a used ATV that I purchased recently from a private party. I had a nearby dealer add a winch to it. It's going to be my new snow plowing rig, even though the ATV is 24 years old. I will be using my 4' X 8' steel trailer that I have had since 1994 to pick it up. I will be pulling it with 2011 Subaru Forester. I wouldn't want to use my Mirage for jobs like that. It's just to light & small of a car. My trip today will be about 25 miles one-way across hilly backroads & county/state highways. The attached pic was when I brought my new purchase home a few weeks ago.

[7milesout]

Find a used 2018 for 6 grand.

A 2018 ES with 5 speed would not have cruise control. I can't live without it.

[7milesout]

Update: here's one, but its a 17.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...2899/overview/

That car has no cruise control and is a CVT. So it is not something I would consider. It must have cruise and be a 5 speed.

[7milesout]

I would be very interested in this one if it had cruise control.
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...6135/overview/

[Fummins]

The wiring for the switch should already be there, seeing that it already has radio/bluetooth controls on the wheel. It may even have the second clutch switch in place, if not it's probably wired for one. It'd be a matter of buying 2 switches then finding someone to activate cruise.

[7milesout]

Electrons and I have never had a good relationship. I try to avoid them at all cost. I'm kind of horny for a 10 year powertrain warranty. I haven't had a warranty on any vehicle in ... probably 10+ years.

[Mark]

A 2018 ES with 5 speed would not have cruise control. I can't live without it.

Aftermarket cruise can be added. Steve drove a Mirage for over 300,000 miles using an aftermarket cruise. I wouldn't skip a good deal over that feature, because you can add it.

[7milesout]

Looking back at the other thread you started, I wouldn't use a Mirage for towing. It's just not designed for that. I could see having a tow hitch for a bike rack on a Mirage, but I would not tow a 5' x 8' trailer with it.

I am off to get a used ATV that I purchased recently from a private party. It's going to be my new snow plowing rig, even though the ATV is 24 years old.

Mark - Lots of good info there. While I probably agree with most or all of it, I have reasons for not following good advice.

The Camry - My parents bought that car when I was working at Toyota Technical Center. They owned it for probably 12 years. Then I bought it from them for cheap when they were going to dump it. My dad is afraid of any car with 100,000+ miles. As if it could explode at any second. I bought it in ~2015 with about 140k miles. I didn't like it. I thought it was ugly, plain, and underpowered. I drove it for a while before my oldest son began using it. I fell in love with it. It remains kind of ugly, the interior is plain, but I love the simple layout. I had to fix a couple things. But after I did, it is such a cream puff. It is SO NOT underpowered with the 2.4L I4. I was wrong. It is used as a "trainer" for my sons so they can learn how to flow with traffic. It is like a big golf cart. So easy to drive. It NEVER has a problem now, and everything works. If a son doesn't destroy it, they qualify for an upgrade (hence the G35 for my older son). My middle son uses it daily now ... he wants a G35 as an upgrade as well. My youngest son will use it next (assuming it doesn't get trashed). I love that car and will never tow with it. I'm not big on towing with automatics, at least those automatics not equipped for towing. They burn themselves up, so this is not a car I would to with.

The Matrix - It is kind of a turd. We had a 2004 Corolla LE with a 5 speed prior. I loved that car too. It was my daily for a long time. Bought it from Toyota when I was at TTC. The wife was using it in the end, with nearly 300k miles and it worked great. She pulled out in front of oncoming traffic and got it T-Boned. Neither left side doors would open any longer. I had to tape seal the left doors and windows, and climb over (not easy for Shrek) to drive it. It still drove fine and A/C worked great. I sold it shortly after for like $900, crashed and all. My wife's coworker was selling the Matrix at that time, and we got it CHEAP for $4,000. Had it a year this October. Had only 78k miles. It has had more problems than I expected. Drives turdy with the auto trans. Due to their failures, I've replaced the starter, alternator, spark plugs (because one fouled and it was misfiring), and the VSV. Spark plugs are of course easy, but it shouldn't have had that problem. The VSV would cause the car not to start after fueling. Had to search the forums quite a bit to identify the issue. But it was an inexpensive fix after that. The wife is driving it, and I refuse to buy her a nice car because she treats her vehicles like a mobile trash can. I think you're right, the Matrix might out tow the Mirage. But if / when I get a Mirage, it will be a manual (and MINE). And, if one is proficient with a manual, it is much more robust especially towing, than an automatic. The Matrix might burn it's transmission up towing. It's the wife's turd anyway.

That is an EXCELLENT ATV / tool for snow plowing. Heck, it's good for more than just plowing snow. I hope you enjoy it long term. When the apocalypse hits and people turn into zombies, I have a feeling an ATV will be a very handy vehicle.

[Fummins]

Looking back at the other thread you started, I wouldn't use a Mirage for towing. It's just not designed for that. I could see having a tow hitch for a bike rack on a Mirage, but I would not tow a 5' x 8' trailer with it.

Given your line up of current cars, I would consider using the Camry or even the Matrix to tow a small utility trailer. My guess is the Matrix would handle the load better & may even get better gas mileage than a Mirage while towing. I have a good friend who uses a Pontiac Vibe for towing a small teardrop camper trailer, & his Vibe (Matrix clone) does quite well. The Matrix is just a bit more substantial than a Mirage. I've used a VW Golf to haul small trailers in the past, & they do ok, too.

I am off to get a used ATV that I purchased recently from a private party. I had a nearby dealer add a winch to it. It's going to be my new snow plowing rig, even though the ATV is 24 years old. I will be using my 4' X 8' steel trailer that I have had since 1994 to pick it up. I will be pulling it with 2011 Subaru Forester. I wouldn't want to use my Mirage for jobs like that. It's just to light & small of a car. My trip today will be about 25 miles one-way across hilly backroads & county/state highways. The attached pic was when I brought my new purchase home a few weeks ago.

Wow, that's in nice shape. I had a 1990 just like that one. Not nearly as nice being an old forestry quad. Was missing the plastic cover for the kick start. I recovered the seat and painted the racks, brought it on a few trips for others to use then sold it for $500 more than I paid.